AirTran TA

[gearup5]

TA approved aprox. 87% in favor.

 

[Muppets]

And our management is enjoying a champagne breakfast and toasting the stupidity of our pilot group. Cheers.

 

[jonjuan]

And our management is enjoying a champaign breakfast and toasting the stupidity of our pilot group. Cheers.

"Champaign?" Yep......

 

[Muppets]

oops. champagne. I still voted no.

 

[Kharma Police]

And our management is enjoying a champaign breakfast and toasting the stupidity of our pilot group. Cheers.

Don't worry, soon you will be flying with some of them!

 

[Muppets]

We should all pray to god this SWA thing happens. The TA we just signed will be around for about the next 12 years - if history repeats itself. The majority of pilots I spoke with didnt even read the contract and voted----thats the disturbing part. Our mec says in the roadshow "If it werent for the possible merger, I wouldnt be up here talking to you guys".......WTF.

 

[Mike man]

good luck finding one person who voted YES

 

[Data]

TA approved aprox. 87% in favor.

So what are some of the highlights for those of us on the outside?

 

[Muppets]

Highlights are......
1. Below Alaska pay
2. Below JB for Airbus
3. Reserves got raped (they can sit ready reserve in any AT city)
4. Signing bonus was an absolute insult (payed out in two payments)
5. Reserves lost a TON of pay (work rules)
6. No override for Mex, Carribean, Canada flying (not international?)
7. Premium pay 125% or 150% (at companys discretion), so that wont exist
8. We got one more hour of vacation pay!
9. Did I mention retro pay that I wouldnt give my dog?

 

[jetlag7]

oops. champagne. I still voted no.

More like SHAM - PAIN!!

 

[CatfishVT9]

good luck finding one person who voted YES

Other way around pal. The guys who voted no are here and on the ALPA board, but they are hard to find in the crew lounge.

I went to a road show last week and asked if they had any no voters speaking about their displeasure. The answer? Not one. He even named off one of the loudest critics on the ALPA board who didn't utter a peep the entire time. It figures since I always just hit page down when I see this guy's name on the forum.

I read it, re-read it and asked questions. I don't think anyone was ecstatic about it, but this was it. I am a realist, so I held my nose and voted yes. The NMB was going to park us until after the holidays before the merger was announced. This was it.

 

[CatfishVT9]

Reserves losing pay Muppets? Another person that doesn't understand the system. You'll make MORE during the slow months since you'll get 78 vice 70 at a better pay rate (for me that's about 87 at the old rate). And during the heavy fly months you'll make more. A lot of guys fail to realize that during a month where they use you every day, your pay CREDIT is the same under current book, TA1, TA2 and yes the latest TA.

 

[Muppets]

Ya....at 87% I bet they are hard to find, there are only 200 of us. I said it once...I will say it again. If our pilot group honestly thinks the NMB walked into a room a said they are going to "park" us if we dont agree to this TA then we are a gullible bunch. The union wanted this shoved through so they used scare tactics of "this or nothing" and we bought it.

 

[Muppets]

Reserves losing pay Muppets? Another person that doesn't understand the system. You'll make MORE during the slow months since you'll get 78 vice 70 at a better pay rate (for me that's about 87 at the old rate). And during the heavy fly months you'll make more. A lot of guys fail to realize that during a month where they use you every day, your pay CREDIT is the same under current book, TA1, TA2 and yes the latest TA.

And when was the last time a reserve at our company credited 70 hours? On a heavy month most hover around 100 hours credit, and fly 65- 70 hours. Is there a slow month here on reserve for the 717....havent seen one yet.

 

[jonjuan]

Man, the wn guys are gonna be even more P.O'd when the sli is relative.

 

[Cometman]

Man, the wn guys are gonna be even more P.O'd when the sli is relative.

Do you really think that will happen? Just like a staple will not happen I really do not think that will happen. If it did I am sure that SWA will become just like USair. That could be the end of SWA as you know it. I think it will be a 3.5-4.0:1 starting in 1993 with some adjutment for DOH. That way there will not be any Airtran guy over a SWA guy. Then after the fence comes down you bid your new number. Everybody will have to get use to it.

 

[Kharma Police]

I read it, re-read it and asked questions. I don't think anyone was ecstatic about it, but this was it. I am a realist, so I held my nose and voted yes. The NMB was going to park us until after the holidays before the merger was announced. This was it.

I voted YES or the same reasons. Not happy about it but hopefully it will expedite the transition process.

 

[Bob Dylan]

IMO, if this TA is as bad as even the AirTran pilots who overwhelmingly voted for it say it is, then this gives SWA significant leverage for them to demand the AT pilots be stapled to the SWA list.

I can see GK pulling the original offer and now making it contingent on AT pilots being stapled. If AT pilots won't cooperate, then they will be stuck with a crappy CBA rather than working for a huge pay increase and better quality of life at SWA.

Maybe this was the plan the whole time. Very interesting.

 

[Muppets]

IMO, if this TA is as bad as even the AirTran pilots who overwhelmingly voted for it say it is, then this gives SWA significant leverage for them to demand the AT pilots be stapled to the SWA list.

I can see GK pulling the original offer and now making it contingent on AT pilots being stapled. If AT pilots won't cooperate, then they will be stuck with a crappy CBA rather than working for a huge pay increase and better quality of life at SWA.

Maybe this was the plan the whole time. Very interesting.

Sure.why not. after the results today I wouldnt be surprised if our pilot group would vote YES for a staple. Nothing would surprise me after the floating turd in the bowl we just passed.

 

[Bob Dylan]

I voted YES or the same reasons. Not happy about it but hopefully it will expedite the transition process.

Not a great poker player, I bet, huh? You pretty much just voted away any leverage that you had in a SLI negotiation. Well done.

 

[Spud]

Not a great poker player, I bet, huh? You pretty much just voted away any leverage that you had in a SLI negotiation. Well done.

Yep dammit, it's all over now because someone named muppets said he was not confident in our pilot leadership. Crap.

 

[GuppyWN]

87%? Dang I said 80% pass.

Sounds like Muppet and I are on the same page. Read it, tear it apart and vote on it like you'll choke on it for years.

Glad ya'll are "mostly" happy with it. Shouldn't have to live with it more than a couple of years.

Gup

 

[slaquer5]

Yep dammit, it's all over now because someone named muppets said he was not confident in our pilot leadership. Crap.

Ok now I don't care who you are, that funny. I spit my beer out.

 

[Muppets]

Yep dammit, it's all over now because someone named muppets said he was not confident in our pilot leadership. Crap.[/QUO

I guess you enjoy being below industry standard....thats ok. I prefer a group of people who shoot for the stars, not shoot a wad on themselves. You and I will enjoy mediocrity together now. Everyone needs to take off the canyon blue sunglasses for a second and make rational decisions. Oops...too late.

 

[Muppets]

I voted YES or the same reasons. Not happy about it but hopefully it will expedite the transition process.

Please explain how it will expedite the transition process?

 

[redflyer65]

I'm actually with Muppets on this one. Kinda sad so many voted for it..

How is the retro money spread around? Longevity?

 

[funnyman12]

We kinda need our MEC and NC for the whole merger thingy. Not very wise to have your union further bogged down in negotiations when you are getting aquired. That was my main reasone for a yes vote. Also it is probably the last chance at getting any money

 

[Kharma Police]

IMO, if this TA is as bad as even the AirTran pilots who overwhelmingly voted for it say it is, then this gives SWA significant leverage for them to demand the AT pilots be stapled to the SWA list.

I can see GK pulling the original offer and now making it contingent on AT pilots being stapled. If AT pilots won't cooperate, then they will be stuck with a crappy CBA rather than working for a huge pay increase and better quality of life at SWA.

Maybe this was the plan the whole time. Very interesting.

Bob Dylan's scratched record talking points:

1. Staple is the only fair thing

2. Have a vote on a staple

3. AirTran Captains are greedy

....skip....skip....skip....skip....skip....

 

[Kharma Police]

Please explain how it will expedite the transition process?

It will be one less issue to be resolved before Southwest acquires us. Mr. Kelly has stated he wanted our contract resolved before the deal is consummated and I seriously doubt our group of amateurs in the NC was willing to go another round or play chicken with the Grand Champion Stephen K.

It will also show the Arbitrator that we are a reasonable group not militant and unreasonable like the UsAir Easties.

 

[Kharma Police]

Not a great poker player, I bet, huh? You pretty much just voted away any leverage that you had in a SLI negotiation. Well done.

AWESOME!, you made a post without mentioning any of your 3 monotonous flame bait talking points!