Airtran-Swa. out of seniority?

[scoreboardII]

PCL, even the no voters are now yes voters.

GL, SWA was coming after ATL, by hook or crook, they want 45-50% domestic market, they are going to get it or die trying.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL, even the no voters are now yes voters.

Was that supposed to be profound or something? Because it doesn't make any sense.

they want 45-50% domestic market

Yeah, they want a lot of things, but they've proven themselves to be pretty incompetent at actually accomplishing any of it. An IT department perpetually stuck in 1979, a CEO delusional enough to believe that an airline can achieve 15% ROIC (or should even care about it in the first place), a flight ops department that does things just "because that's how we've always done it," and the list goes on. This place wouldn't even be profitable right now if it weren't for AirTran's baggage fees, let alone the huge cost advantage they're getting by putting us on a B-scale. The idea that they could have invaded Atlanta and gone head to head with both AirTran and Delta is just laughable.

BTW, how's that single engine taxi coming? Still need another 12 months to "train" for it?

 

[Flyer1015]

let alone the huge cost advantage they're getting by putting us on a B-scale.

Didn't SLI method #1 you (guys) turned down bring equal pay pretty much right away? Sounds like the B-scale was created by SLI method #2.

 

[humveedriver]

Didn't SLI method #1 you (guys) turned down bring equal pay pretty much right away? Sounds like the B-scale was created by SLI method #2.

It was a classic case of saying will you sell your seniority? Most of us believed that we should never have been put in that situation. But that's what GK wanted. He wanted us to sell our seniority for pay parity and a bunch of rediculous conditions and restrictions. Many folks agree that the MEC did the right thing turning it down, and just as many think it should have been put out to a vote. I don't remember any of it being an easy decision.

 

[scoreboardII]

Was that supposed to be profound or something? Because it doesn't make any sense.



Yeah, they want a lot of things, but they've proven themselves to be pretty incompetent at actually accomplishing any of it. An IT department perpetually stuck in 1979, a CEO delusional enough to believe that an airline can achieve 15% ROIC (or should even care about it in the first place), a flight ops department that does things just "because that's how we've always done it," and the list goes on. This place wouldn't even be profitable right now if it weren't for AirTran's baggage fees, let alone the huge cost advantage they're getting by putting us on a B-scale. The idea that they could have invaded Atlanta and gone head to head with both AirTran and Delta is just laughable.

BTW, how's that single engine taxi coming? Still need another 12 months to "train" for it?

Profound? Simply it means no matter how you voted, the yes vote won, so now you get to deal with it just like the yes voter.

Pretty incompetent? They only managed to kill every major out there, according most on this site, sure, nothing but incompetence here. That doesn't mean I don't agree with most of your thoughts, but that one is just wrong.

And yes, SWA would have killed AT in a head to head fight. Lets be intellectually honest, they did kill AT. Still laughing?

 

[PCL_128]

Profound? Simply it means no matter how you voted, the yes vote won, so now you get to deal with it just like the yes voter.

Which isn't remotely the same as us all being yes voters. Sorry, but I'm no yes voter. I may be stuck with it, but I'll be a proud no voter forever.

Pretty incompetent? They only managed to kill every major out there, according most on this site, sure, nothing but incompetence here. That doesn't mean I don't agree with most of your thoughts, but that one is just wrong.

Yes, incompetent. You can't keep pointing to successes of years past and claim that they're relevant now. They aren't. Regardless of past success, SWA is struggling right now. Again, without AirTran's ancillary revenue, SWA would have its first money losing year in three decades. It's time to examine why that is and make the corrections. Start with the backwards ass IT department that is holding us all back in an embarrassing fashion.

And yes, SWA would have killed AT in a head to head fight. Lets be intellectually honest, they did kill AT. Still laughing?

Yep, I'm still laughing. Laughing at the arrogance that will be your downfall.

 

[ATLplt]

And yes, SWA would have killed AT in a head to head fight. Lets be intellectually honest, they did kill AT. Still laughing?

Do you put your purple and orange pom poms away when you're beating it to Gary's head shot?

 

[scoreboardII]

Not arrogance, just a fact.

Again, without AirTran's ancillary revenue, SWA would have its first money losing year in three decades. It's time to examine why that is and make the corrections.

You obviously have little knowledge of accounting principles. If SWA never heard of AT or was fighting head to head, do you think they would have slowed the purchase of somethings to still show a profit? Yep.

I have no beef that it's messed up, that they could have done it better, that the IT department needs a pink slip. Just remember, their your IT dpeartment now.

But your ignorance of the facts on the ground that AT will be gone Jan 1 2015 is just a river in Egypt, Denial of the truth SWA would have kicked AT's butt, and did.

 

[PCL_128]

Not arrogance, just a fact.

You'll get your comeuppance. Only a matter of time.

 

[scoreboardII]

Well, who will feel the comeuppance first if your lower on the list than I then huh?

 

[PCL_128]

Well, who will feel the comeuppance first if your lower on the list than I then huh?

I'm hoping to get out of here long before then.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Will you two just get a room???!!!

 

[General Lee]

I'm hoping to get out of here long before then.

Maybe you'll get on DL? 7000 supposed new hires within the decade, and you can go back to the 717 initially, and then try long haul if you desire. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe you'll get on DL? 7000 supposed new hires within the decade, and you can go back to the 717 initially, and then try long haul if you desire. Good luck.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Thanks, Gen. If I was looking to go to another airline, then DAL would definitely be my first choice. But my goal is to get out of the business of flying airplanes for a living. If it doesn't work out, though, I may be hitting you up for a recommendation.

 

[Tripower455]

You Cornies never saw anything good from your merger, and that is where you FAIL.

Looks like we were right...

There IS nothing good about this aquisition and subequent SL merger for the SW guys.

The entire debacle will go down in history as being one of the major nails in the coffin of SWA.

Thanks Gary!

 

[ron burgundy]

Gentlemen.....as I thought,starting this thread,I am sorry I asked! Again,touchy subject matter and tensions run high. It will probably all work out. Until the end result....enjoy what you have.

 

[Lear70]

Looks like we were right...

There IS nothing good about this aquisition and subequent SL merger for the SW guys.

Except for the top 1,000 SWA F/O's who will upgrade years ahead of their stand-alone plans.

The entire debacle will go down in history as being one of the major nails in the coffin of SWA.

Except for that whole quick access to the Caribbean and International flying thing (which SWA has realized is MUCH more lucrative than they previously-imagined).

And also quick entrance into the ATL market which would have been quite difficult and costly otherwise.

I'm betting things will turn positive quite quickly for Southwest overall come 2nd or 3rd quarter 2015, and the employees along with it. Still have to worry about the Classics retirement schedule (from our perspective) but overall, I'm not too worried about the immediate future (7-10 year period) for Southwest. I believe SWA management sees the problems and is working hard to get rid of the dead weight.

That said, as far as the Corporate Culture that was Southwest... I'm not sure it's even still here. I haven't seen it outside the GO. Seems pretty much like any other major airline from my interactions with SWA employees twice a week, every week, and the integration isn't making things any friendlier.

 

[scoreboardII]

Except for the top 1,000 SWA F/O's who will upgrade years ahead of their stand-alone plans.


Except for that whole quick access to the Caribbean and International flying thing (which SWA has realized is MUCH more lucrative than they previously-imagined).

And also quick entrance into the ATL market which would have been quite difficult and costly otherwise.

I'm betting things will turn positive quite quickly for Southwest overall come 2nd or 3rd quarter 2015, and the employees along with it. Still have to worry about the Classics retirement schedule (from our perspective) but overall, I'm not too worried about the immediate future (7-10 year period) for Southwest. I believe SWA management sees the problems and is working hard to get rid of the dead weight.

That said, as far as the Corporate Culture that was Southwest... I'm not sure it's even still here. I haven't seen it outside the GO. Seems pretty much like any other major airline from my interactions with SWA employees twice a week, every week, and the integration isn't making things any friendlier.

Your 1000FO upgrade is way off base, if you don't make the cut for a 2015 upgrade (about 400-600 FO's, not 1000) your looking at upgrading within months of a no AT purchase based on retirements alone with no growth starting once the AT guys push their seniority post 2015. No OSW will upgrade between 2015 and 2018-19.

For about a decade this airline has suffered from the "two SWA" mentality. Those in the GO who never do a thing to move a passenger from point A to point B and are force fed the coolaid every Friday at the deck parties. And the real SWA, those in the jets, on the ramp, at the gates moving 3500 flights a day. Yes, the mentality between those two points of view is staggering.

That said, every overnight is a chance to partake in the true SWA spirit, that still lives, and that is missing even at the GO. Read the LUV lines, who gets the LUV notes, the GO folks or the road warriors?

funny, i just noticed we both said "that said"...

 

[Secret Squirrel]

Thanks, Gen. If I was looking to go to another airline, then DAL would definitely be my first choice. But my goal is to get out of the business of flying airplanes for a living. If it doesn't work out, though, I may be hitting you up for a recommendation.

You were in this business to fly planes?

 

[redflyer65]

You were in this business to fly planes?

Not really. His goal was NOT to fly.