AirTran Pilots...

[Lear70]

Absolutely. My family is more important than this place.

I'm on airline #4. I know that jobs come and go; this one is no more important than the last. Yes, it provides an income, but I can replace this income in a heartbeat.

Time with my family is irreplaceable and I'm pretty pissed off our MEC gave this away.

My last MEC passed a very important resolution I'd like to see passed here:

The MEC cannot sign ANY T.A. or waive ANY contract section that is deemed to be a pay or QOL issue without member ratification. This would qualify under both.

If I had someone else viable to vote for that wouldn't give away the farm in other areas, I'd be online voting right this second...

 

[Ty Webb]

I would hate to have been under your leadership in a combat situation.

Sorry, Chief, but as others have already told you, playing the "combat card"
isn't doing anything here except making you look foolish. Most of us have seen from experience that those who routinely play that card are compensating for something. The rest learn to put it in a box. Note that the quietest among us are usually the Marines.

Try pointing to something you have done in the past ten years that doesn't involve the military . . . . tell us about that time you caught a guy not wearing his hat on Concourse C, or the time you had to clean the sparkplug on your lawnmower yourself . . . . We're all waiting to be dazzled with more examples of your brilliance and leadership, but the tired lines you're parroting here are not leadership, but followership . . . the same lines that make me glad I'm not a 717 FO anymore, and that your viewpoint is in the minority of the pilot group, from what I'm seeing and hearing.

 

[Spud]

AFCitrus, You sound like a real O-4 hinge type. Be a man, and stand up for something.

 

[mnboyev]

Ouch.

 

[SkiFishFly]

Real entertainment for a former Navy guy

... watching an AF and Army guy argue about leadership on an internet message board...

 

[-9Capt]

I ripped this off another website.

LOA latest info.

Nothing has been signed as of yet (Monday evening). The company presented a proposed LOA with a few "zingers" and it was rejected by Allen and the BOD.

JA's will probably be coming to the 737 fleet soon.

I was assured the personal hardship provision will remain in effect. However, you will have to claim the hardship by a yet to be determined deadline (Thur-Fri?) so the company can find another pilot to cover the trip.
Also, a few pilots have already been JA'd this month, you may not be JA'd again.

Don't take this as official info, it's certainly subject to change.

 

[AFcitrus]

I see that your only experience prior to AirTran was in the military.


For the record I had no intention of bringing up my military experience until Don decided to bring it up. By his ignorant statement he infers someone who is in the military as well as the airlines can't have a viable opinion about something that affects all of us. Once he brought this up I had no choice but to counter such foolishness.

I've found that when people digress from the facts of the situation (ala Don Verita) and start making personal attacks, it only stands to reason that the person has nothing more constructive to say.

Everyone here has their opinion. That's what's great about this board. This issue has been decided and bickering between Airtran brothers will get us nowhere. Peace Out Gents.

Merry Christmas

 

[DonVerita]

I see that your only experience prior to AirTran was in the military.


For the record I had no intention of bringing up my military experience until Don decided to bring it up. By his ignorant statement he infers someone who is in the military as well as the airlines can't have a viable opinion about something that affects all of us. Once he brought this up I had no choice but to counter such foolishness.

I've found that when people digress from the facts of the situation (ala Don Verita) and start making personal attacks, it only stands to reason that the person has nothing more constructive to say.

Everyone here has their opinion. That's what's great about this board. This issue has been decided and bickering between Airtran brothers will get us nowhere. Peace Out Gents.

Merry Christmas

AFCitrus...I made an observation of what YOU put in your avatar. The point being that you coming from a military-only background quite possibly may shed some light on your attitude of coddling management.

Frankly, you have nothing on the line. You are probably in the Guard drawing a paycheck and/or you have military retirement you are receiving now or will be receiving in the future.

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.

 

[fletch717]

AF, Ty and Don V are correct. While you are hanging out at the O club in your flight suit trying to impress some skank. People are dying every day in Ramadi, and Fallujah. It has been my experience that the ones who talk the most, did the least.

 

[freightdogfred]

AFCitrus...I made an observation of what YOU put in your avatar. The point being that you coming from a military-only background quite possibly may shed some light on your attitude of coddling management.

Frankly, you have nothing on the line. You are probably in the Guard drawing a paycheck and/or you have military retirement you are receiving now or will be receiving in the future.

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.

Well said. I've often wondered how guys out of the military equate complying with management's scheme of the day to military ops/conduct. I know ATL's a tough town, but is there anyone shooting at you guys down there in the dirty south?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

AFCitrus...I made an observation of what YOU put in your avatar. The point being that you coming from a military-only background quite possibly may shed some light on your attitude of coddling management.

Frankly, you have nothing on the line. You are probably in the Guard drawing a paycheck and/or you have military retirement you are receiving now or will be receiving in the future.

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.

Well said Don!

 

[newnan]

I've found that when people digress from the facts of the situation (ala Don Verita) and start making personal attacks, it only stands to reason that the person has nothing more constructive to say.

AfCitrus, a few pages back you called me a coward and a whiner, do you have nothing more constructive to say? I'm looking forward to meeting you in person!

 

[SLEDNECK]

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.[/quote]


Well said.

The only thing more disappointing then the company pulling this crap is the union agreeing to it. I always preach to support the union, but the reality of the matter is we pay our dues so that it supports us during times such as this. The union's selective enforcement is a contradiction to the reason why we have it in the first place, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't spark some 'lack of representation' lawsuits. I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

The only good thing that was agreed was the personal hardship clause with the deadline. I think everyone involved should use this. After all, this isn't an illegal slow down or strike. It's nothing more or less than the pilots flying the contract as agreed. However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

The progress of yesterday wasn't achieved by "hoping for the best" and playing nice. Everyone enjoys what progress has been achieved so far, but without any more effort or sacrifice, this is as good as it's going to get!

 

[SkiFishFly]

I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

The only good thing that was agreed was the personal hardship clause with the deadline. I think everyone involved should use this. After all, this isn't an illegal slow down or strike. It's nothing more or less than the pilots flying the contract as agreed. However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

That is a damn good question. I'm not sure I want to try to find out. It just isn't worth the hassle. Also triple time pay would not have been enough incentive for me.

I now think the right thing to do would have been to back everyone out of SAP 2 for trades affecting 23-26 Dec. My schedule is now considerably worse than what I originally had.

 

[Lear70]

The only thing more disappointing then the company pulling this crap is the union agreeing to it. I always preach to support the union, but the reality of the matter is we pay our dues so that it supports us during times such as this. The union's selective enforcement is a contradiction to the reason why we have it in the first place, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't spark some 'lack of representation' lawsuits. I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

BINGO!

However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

I wouldn't worry about using that. If the union didn't back you 100%, THAT is where the anti-trust and failure to represent lawsuits would come into play.

I'm certain they are VERY aware of this; they DO have a pretty sharp legal team and I'm sure this was run by them before it went out.

The progress of yesterday wasn't achieved by "hoping for the best" and playing nice. Everyone enjoys what progress has been achieved so far, but without any more effort or sacrifice, this is as good as it's going to get!

Exactly my point.

I now think the right thing to do would have been to back everyone out of SAP 2 for trades affecting 23-26 Dec. My schedule is now considerably worse than what I originally had.

That is EXACTLY what should have happened.

The computer records are all there, it wouldn't take more than a couple hours to simply figure out everything that was done for the 23rd-26th and re-run each SAP 2 trade until they hit their coverage threshold and say, "This is what SHOULD have happened, it's prior precedent that we've denied SAP 2 trades due to coverage, and we're now re-establishing that precedent", THEN let the union negotiate compensation for it.

At least that way you wouldn't have pilots who were senior enough to hold Christmas off by their ORIGINAL LINE BID being Junior Assigned. That's just abrogation of your seniority, plain and simple, and I don't pay dues for that.

I'm too disgusted to vote and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a VERY weak turnout because of this. A lot of guys are thinking, "If this is the kind of representation I'm going to get, I'm screwed either way, so why bother?" About 1 of every 5 or 6 guys I've talked to (junior and senior) have even voted yet.

Way to motivate your pilot group.

 

[SLEDNECK]

BINGO!



I'm too disgusted to vote and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a VERY weak turnout because of this. A lot of guys are thinking, "If this is the kind of representation I'm going to get, I'm screwed either way, so why bother?" About 1 of every 5 or 6 guys I've talked to (junior and senior) have even voted yet.

Way to motivate your pilot group.

I feel exactly the same way. Both guys are good people, but quite frankly, when it comes to this, I'm looking for a rabid pitbull that hasn't had anything to eat in a while.

 

[Phaedrus]

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

 

[Lear70]

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

Well,,, there's always that write-in option.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, what are you guys waiting for?

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

It would be pretty funny if when they post the results, there was a vote for Ty Webb as a write-in for Pres. . . . hate to waste a valid vote if the election is close, but maybe Phaedrus can still log in and cast his!

 

[Phaedrus]

That would be worth it just to cut, paste and start a great thread here. I could log in to CrewTrac up until a short while ago, but now, alas I cannot. I checked the NPA website not too long ago so I could read up on the situation, but no luck there either. Maybe if I send it snail-mail...?