AirTran Pilots...

[DougCorp-9]

Personal hardship. Period.

 

[ATA For Now!]

What a joke.

The worst part is ....nothing will be done about it.

 

[AFcitrus]

I normally don't make many comments here but I feel compelled to put my two cents in:

1) Am I happy I have to work through Christmas? no. Our company, however, got caught with their shorts down due to an oversight in the implementation of something (FLICA) that every pilot is happy that we now have. After giving all the incentives they "claim" they could - to include premium pay, positive space commuting tickets, and hotels - they didn't have enough people who wanted to help keep their jobs secure.

2) They did the next thing they could to protect the most important part of our business - our paying passengers. Could you imagine the tens of thousands of passengers getting stranded on Christmas eve because of a labor issue at our airline.
We all might get Christmas off next year and the year after.

3) You say well "it's not my fault their system messed up". No it's not, but you can certainly be a team player and be part of the solution that corrects the problem. Your generosity will most certainly be rewarded someday.

4) Most people who claim they had those days off, and are now flying, only got those days off because of a glitch in the system. Had that glitch not ocurred, they would not have been allowed to swap out of Christmas and would still be flying on Christmas. No harm, no foul.

5) The company was planning on and drafting people on Christmas anyway. So now you have a week to plan around your being drafted. Would you rather think your done with a trip on the morning of the 25th, only to have someone waiting at the gate with your draft notice for another three legs? I sure would rather have time to plan.
I'm sure you would all answer your phones on Christmas day when the company came calling for a JA.

1) Finally, we have a place (NPA website) and a process (grievance, injunction, etc) for this time of ranting. Using a public website to rant and whine (albeit warranted) about your company will get you nowhere. All it will do is weaken your airline's value on the "street" and jeopardize your family's well being.

Have a nice day and Merry Christmas

 

[FlyAirtran]

Very well said AFcitrus.

In my opinion if you have been at an aviation job less than 2 years (minimum). You should expect to work on Christmas period. You probably got hired thinking, "well im gonna have to work holidays" now it seems many are singing a different tune all the while thinking "someone else will cover it" you are right, someone else will cover your trip but it wont be pilots, it will be the 5 and 10 o'clock news along with CNN and FOXNEWS channels saying how Airtran canceled hundreds of flights over the holidays due to a computer glitch and lack of crews. No one will come back next year and we will all be out of a job.

Now dont get me wrong, I dont think the company did the right thing -- the way that they went about doing it was wrong (especially assigining reserves on their days off ) -- in fact in some aspects its very wrong. But think about why your here in the first place, because of the passenger and if they dont come back were all screwed especially if we are at the bottom of the list.

Like AFcitrus said, its better to know now then the day of. Fly it and Grieve it. Hopefully this pushes the company to get the contract settled more quickly and lets take this to a private forum.

 

[Lear70]

First, there is not just one issue that caused this to come about. It also had a LOT to do with our seat being short-staffed.

Second, don't throw some generalization out there that "MOST" of those who were off were only off due to some "glitch" in the system... I SPECIFICALLY BID for Christmas off. To get any of it off I could only hold a reserve line with the 22nd - 24th off (Christmas Eve), but it was better than nothing and I otherwise would have held a hard line, so I OWNED THAT DAY OFF. Period. Not through some computer breakdown.

Third, it's not "hundreds of flights". There were 63 uncovered pairings on the WORST day the morning they started all this (according to Planning), less on other days.

Lastly, do you REALLY think the public is going to have a long-term memory about that sort of thing? Nope. They go where the lowest fares are. Period. If we had an extensive work stoppage over a month or more, then probably yes. One hiccup? Got one phrase for you:

Northwest meltdown Christmas '04. Stranded THOUSANDS of passengers. They still came back.

I like it here as much as the next guy, but I SPECIFICALLY came here and turned down Netjets because I like being able to bid my schedule in advance. Period. If we quit having that ability during important holidays, then what the hell are we doing in an industry that has this cyclical CRAP we put up with every 7-10 years?

This treatment should NEVER be tolerated, as it undermines ALL for which we have fought and suffered.

You guys need to quit drinking the company kool-aid.

 

[DonVerita]

This all could have been fixed by offering Double Time pay for work over a holiday as important as Christmas...just like some other airlines do. But noooooooo...management had too much of a hard on for that. That might cut into their bonuses. So there you have it. NPA is in court filing legal injunctions to stop this blatent contract violation cold.

AFCitrus...spare us the mega-koolaid nonsense. I see that your only experience prior to AirTran was in the military. Welcome to the real world son. Get your head on straight. You are dealing with Lorenzo-style management who doesn't give a rat's a$$ about you, your QOL, or your contract.

Witness:

1. Reassignment pay violation
2. Reserves assigned trips outside 48 hours violation
3. No CASS yet
4. Forced trips on days off violation
5. and on and on....

Management created this problem. Management needs to be held accountable...just like you are for everything on the line. All they had to do was put in a parameter within Flica that limits the amount of open trips on a holiday using some sort of fair ratio that was agreeable to all parties. But in their typical Orwellian information restrictive attempt to not share anything with you and keep you in the dark, they pulled another knee-jerk reaction like this.

A person can talk about the consequences of touching a fire all they want. But until you actually experience it, you don't have a true understanding or respect for its consequences.

If flights need to be cancelled and thousands of pax. stranded so that management can see the result of their stupidity and the idiots they appointed....then so be it. It has to stop somewhere. The blame rests with management...period.

Follow the current contract to the letter. Do not waive a single word!! You want your new contract most riki-tik? Then stand up and show solidarity with your brothers and with your union!

 

[Whine Lover]

"You say well "it's not my fault their system messed up". No it's not, but you can certainly be a team player and be part of the solution that corrects the problem. Your generosity will most certainly be rewarded someday."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...


..OOOOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHOHO


hAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Good ONE!

That's funny.



YKW

 

[whoknows]

I normally don't make many comments here but I feel compelled to put my two cents in:

1) Am I happy I have to work through Christmas? no. Our company, however, got caught with their shorts down due to an oversight in the implementation of something (FLICA) that every pilot is happy that we now have. After giving all the incentives they "claim" they could - to include premium pay, positive space commuting tickets, and hotels - they didn't have enough people who wanted to help keep their jobs secure.

2) They did the next thing they could to protect the most important part of our business - our paying passengers. Could you imagine the tens of thousands of passengers getting stranded on Christmas eve because of a labor issue at our airline.
We all might get Christmas off next year and the year after.

3) You say well "it's not my fault their system messed up". No it's not, but you can certainly be a team player and be part of the solution that corrects the problem. Your generosity will most certainly be rewarded someday.

4) Most people who claim they had those days off, and are now flying, only got those days off because of a glitch in the system. Had that glitch not ocurred, they would not have been allowed to swap out of Christmas and would still be flying on Christmas. No harm, no foul.

5) The company was planning on and drafting people on Christmas anyway. So now you have a week to plan around your being drafted. Would you rather think your done with a trip on the morning of the 25th, only to have someone waiting at the gate with your draft notice for another three legs? I sure would rather have time to plan.
I'm sure you would all answer your phones on Christmas day when the company came calling for a JA.

1) Finally, we have a place (NPA website) and a process (grievance, injunction, etc) for this time of ranting. Using a public website to rant and whine (albeit warranted) about your company will get you nowhere. All it will do is weaken your airline's value on the "street" and jeopardize your family's well being.

Have a nice day and Merry Christmas

Let me start by saying you ar an IDIOT and add my 2 cents!

1) I could give a crap about FLICA. So please take "every pilot" out of your assertion.

2) Wrong again! The most important part of any business is its' employees. If our mangagement would realize this maybe they would get the volunteers they need to cover their mistakes. However, AirTran lets us know in no uncertain terms that "we are not special" until they screw up and need some special help.

3) "Team player" coach is that you? Give me a break! I am sure the company will reward me by not paying block or better or some other disregaurd for our current CBA.

4) Maybe I am wrong, but this "glitch" in the system was a result of FLICA not abrogating the contract. So the "glitch" that put the company in the position they are in, is our CBA actullay being applied.

5) "Drafting people on Christmas anyway"......brilliant planning on the companys part!!!! I wonder if the LUV peole plan to draft people on Christmas?

6) Then SHUT UP!

I vote for you to be our next chief pilot!

 

[-9Capt]

you can certainly be a team player and be part of the solution that corrects the problem. Your generosity will most certainly be rewarded someday.

What company do you work for?

This type of kool-aid drinking BS is the reason we get walked all over. Let's just take knee pads and Vaseline to work with us.

The company has been doing everything they can to dismantle our contract the list is too long to get into here. This is just the latest example.

A LOT of the guys who were JA'd in advance (illegal) bid for and were awarded Christmas off BEFORE sap. WTF is seniority for again?

 

[Ty Webb]

Could you imagine the tens of thousands of passengers getting stranded on Christmas eve because of a labor issue at our airline.
We all might get Christmas off next year and the year after.

Sorry, guy, but Don V. is 100% correct. No one is going to lose his job over a Christmas meltdown except the guy who should lose his job over this- Jim T. You can't always live in fear of "losing your job". That's a leftover here from the VJ scabs who had to cling to this place like a dying man. I don't know about you, but the way things have been going in the last two years, if I was an FO, I would probably have left by now.

You say well "it's not my fault their system messed up". No it's not, but you can certainly be a team player and be part of the solution that corrects the problem. Your generosity will most certainly be rewarded someday.

No, your generosity will not be rewarded . . . your union signed 6 LOA's with the company so far, and got zero, zilch, squat, nada, not even a handful of magic beans. Management got huge, obscene bonuses, and you got your sick policy changed, your re-assignment pay changed, your reserve use policy changed. Wake up, man!

Most people who claim they had those days off, and are now flying, only got those days off because of a glitch in the system. Had that glitch not ocurred, they would not have been allowed to swap out of Christmas and would still be flying on Christmas. No harm, no foul.

At snapshot, these pilots were awarded these pairings. Now, you think it's OK for the Company to unilaterally change your days off to days on, in clear violation of the contract? Are you nuts?

But, wait, threre is still more to come:

The company was planning on and drafting people on Christmas anyway. So now you have a week to plan around your being drafted.

The point here is that it is a clear violation of the contract. Period. This cannot be tolerated. Period. Otherwise, this job will not be worth having. Period.

Finally, we have a place (NPA website) and a process (grievance, injunction, etc) for this time of ranting. Using a public website to rant and whine (albeit warranted) about your company will get you nowhere. All it will do is weaken your airline's value on the "street" and jeopardize your family's well being.

Actually, we don't have a message board on the NPA website anymore- haven't for about three years now. Has it really been that long since you went there? As for airing this stuff- what're you afraid of, that the truth is known? Here's a novel thought- How about working to change it, instead of hiding it?

 

[gt1900]

Looks like the Co. is gonna pay double time if you were originally awarded X-mas off through the normal bid or SAP 1. However, If you got it off in SAP 2 your gonna get time and a half... Not a good situation either way, but I do agree. Guys who are junior and only got x-mas off due to a glitch, well, your gonna get hosed.. But, you shouldn't of gotten it off in the first place.. I didn't get it off and I also am not getting paid double time or even time and a half, and I'm not complaining. I wasn't senior enough to get x-mas off. I also didn't get an assignment on the days around x-mas due to the fact that they couldn't touch me in reverse seniority... Is it perfect... Hell no, but at least the Co. and union came to an agreement about something.. Hopefully if they can get along about this, maybe they will see eye to eye on a new contract..

 

[AFcitrus]

Too many idiotic statements for me to reply to all of them. So I'll just say a few things, boys.

- Use the NPA website to send an email to AP. Oh wait he already knows about the problem. So your griping and moaning on this board is doing what? Nothing. I'm sure the company monitors these public forums to measure pilot sentiment and then change their minds. Yea right. Put the crack pipe down!!!

- For those of you who originally had Christmas off before the SAP or were JA on reserve - you have an argument. However, as of 12/13 there were 80 open 717 CA duty periods on the 24/25th. Now, of the 329 regular lines only 211 had either the 24th or the 25th off. That means that 118 people would have been flying on the 24th or 25th. The people who got those 80 duty periods are well within the 118. Sorry to trouble all of you with the facts. There is a lot of generalization going on but until you break down the numbers, you don't have the complete picture.

- I'm not saying the company is right. I'm saying that they had two alternatives. Either do what they have done many times before (break contract) with any punishment or alienate tens of thousands of passengers/friends and family of those passengers.

- Another idea would have been to reverse the SAP II outcomes, apologize for the oversight and implement the manning requirements. Then they could have had a second SAP II.

- As for the moron who claims being in the military means I have know idea what I'm talking about. You are half right. I am in the AF and it's a darn good thing people like you never joined or we'd all be speaking Japanese. When told to go fight for your country you would have said "wait, I'm supposed to be on leave for Christmas. I have my paperwork right here". Sometimes you take a hit for the good of the country or in this case your company. If everyone thought like you, you wouldn't have a flying job now, certainly not one with a growing major airline.

I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of responses about me being naive. But the bottom line is PICK YOUR BATTLES. This one could have far greater impact than many of you believe given the nature of our industry.

Thanks for you attention and FIRE AWAY.

 

[Av8tor]

check the NPA website for new information.

http://www.npa-atl.org/

 

[BigEasy]

Sorry, guy, but Don V. is 100% correct. No one is going to lose his job over a Christmas meltdown except the guy who should lose his job over this- Jim T. You can't always live in fear of "losing your job". That's a leftover here from the VJ scabs who had to cling to this place like a dying man. I don't know about you, but the way things have been going in the last two years, if I was an FO, I would probably have left by now.


True wisdom, many are doing just that!!!!

Incredible!

 

[mnboyev]

Well.. let me just say.. I didnt SAP 2.... I am working Xmas and Xmas eve... I bid that because I knew I could hold an overnite in my hometown.. and a good one at that... Kinda like bidding reserve with days off that my seniority could hold... but this is how it happened... And Im not afraid to lay it out site !

Now, I bid a 4 day off trip ... and now .. all of a sudden I am working a 5 day trip... 30 credit.. because Screw sched called last week.. I thought.. well I'll help out with the problem.. and make a little dough too... as long as I dont loose my Xmas overnite in MSP... Well... I can see it coming... because I bid and did what I could hold.. I am going to loose it and get jacked around over the holiday cause the NPA and the Union cant have more foresight and work together..... Its gonna be fighting fires over the holiday.. and I just cant wait to get recrewed like some reserve pilot... jacked all over the place ... whatever..

Bust up the trips... pay the X2 pay as was offered by the NPA... But.. no... Orlando is not responsible..... and will not come our way a bit... please...

This a pretty easy going pilot group... all want the place to be successful and we certainly want to take good care of our customers and crew !! We would do what is needed if the company would knock of the garbage.. .. Like hey guys... this is our mess up.. and we really need ya all.... Help us out .. lets work together and make this Ok.... Naww... didnt go down like that did it.

AF...sorry...I will do anything for this place.. but my patience is getting thin..
As a line holder .. I will not be a reserve pilot.... I'm glad you have xmas off... I work weekends, holidays, and afternoon shift so you dont have to... That is no problem... But we have a contract... and 'they' must follow it.. If our union approves a letter... cool.... but till then.. I support my union hall's decisions..

One of the BOYS