AirTran Pilots...

[XRMEFLYER]

AFCitrus...I made an observation of what YOU put in your avatar. The point being that you coming from a military-only background quite possibly may shed some light on your attitude of coddling management.

Frankly, you have nothing on the line. You are probably in the Guard drawing a paycheck and/or you have military retirement you are receiving now or will be receiving in the future.

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.

Well said Don!

 

[newnan]

I've found that when people digress from the facts of the situation (ala Don Verita) and start making personal attacks, it only stands to reason that the person has nothing more constructive to say.

AfCitrus, a few pages back you called me a coward and a whiner, do you have nothing more constructive to say? I'm looking forward to meeting you in person!

 

[SLEDNECK]

Most of the rest of us don't have your safety net. So when we say, "Hold the line!" it means just that. When you say, "Hold the line" it means, "don't rock the boat so I can milk this gig for a few more years because I've got mine so I'm not worried about the rest of you..."

You have obviously served our country and I thank you for that. If you came from one of the military academies then you better be thanking us because we payed for your priviledged education. In matters of labor relations, you have no experience sir. You are, in fact, a rookie. So until you've got a few years under your belt, don't undermine the efforts of those fighting on your behalf for a better quality of life.[/quote]


Well said.

The only thing more disappointing then the company pulling this crap is the union agreeing to it. I always preach to support the union, but the reality of the matter is we pay our dues so that it supports us during times such as this. The union's selective enforcement is a contradiction to the reason why we have it in the first place, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't spark some 'lack of representation' lawsuits. I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

The only good thing that was agreed was the personal hardship clause with the deadline. I think everyone involved should use this. After all, this isn't an illegal slow down or strike. It's nothing more or less than the pilots flying the contract as agreed. However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

The progress of yesterday wasn't achieved by "hoping for the best" and playing nice. Everyone enjoys what progress has been achieved so far, but without any more effort or sacrifice, this is as good as it's going to get!

 

[SkiFishFly]

I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

The only good thing that was agreed was the personal hardship clause with the deadline. I think everyone involved should use this. After all, this isn't an illegal slow down or strike. It's nothing more or less than the pilots flying the contract as agreed. However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

That is a damn good question. I'm not sure I want to try to find out. It just isn't worth the hassle. Also triple time pay would not have been enough incentive for me.

I now think the right thing to do would have been to back everyone out of SAP 2 for trades affecting 23-26 Dec. My schedule is now considerably worse than what I originally had.

 

[Lear70]

The only thing more disappointing then the company pulling this crap is the union agreeing to it. I always preach to support the union, but the reality of the matter is we pay our dues so that it supports us during times such as this. The union's selective enforcement is a contradiction to the reason why we have it in the first place, and I wouldn't be surprised if it didn't spark some 'lack of representation' lawsuits. I'm certainly not anti-union, but rather pro-contract, the one they both signed. Anyone who thinks this doesn't affect them has their head in the sand. If the company can do this, than what can't they do? Which parts of the contract is the union going to support?

BINGO!

However, if I am going to bold enough to "hold the line" and use this clause, which shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, is the union going to be bold enough to back me up if I get called onto the carpet?

I wouldn't worry about using that. If the union didn't back you 100%, THAT is where the anti-trust and failure to represent lawsuits would come into play.

I'm certain they are VERY aware of this; they DO have a pretty sharp legal team and I'm sure this was run by them before it went out.

The progress of yesterday wasn't achieved by "hoping for the best" and playing nice. Everyone enjoys what progress has been achieved so far, but without any more effort or sacrifice, this is as good as it's going to get!

Exactly my point.

I now think the right thing to do would have been to back everyone out of SAP 2 for trades affecting 23-26 Dec. My schedule is now considerably worse than what I originally had.

That is EXACTLY what should have happened.

The computer records are all there, it wouldn't take more than a couple hours to simply figure out everything that was done for the 23rd-26th and re-run each SAP 2 trade until they hit their coverage threshold and say, "This is what SHOULD have happened, it's prior precedent that we've denied SAP 2 trades due to coverage, and we're now re-establishing that precedent", THEN let the union negotiate compensation for it.

At least that way you wouldn't have pilots who were senior enough to hold Christmas off by their ORIGINAL LINE BID being Junior Assigned. That's just abrogation of your seniority, plain and simple, and I don't pay dues for that.

I'm too disgusted to vote and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a VERY weak turnout because of this. A lot of guys are thinking, "If this is the kind of representation I'm going to get, I'm screwed either way, so why bother?" About 1 of every 5 or 6 guys I've talked to (junior and senior) have even voted yet.

Way to motivate your pilot group.

 

[SLEDNECK]

BINGO!



I'm too disgusted to vote and I wouldn't be surprised if we have a VERY weak turnout because of this. A lot of guys are thinking, "If this is the kind of representation I'm going to get, I'm screwed either way, so why bother?" About 1 of every 5 or 6 guys I've talked to (junior and senior) have even voted yet.

Way to motivate your pilot group.

I feel exactly the same way. Both guys are good people, but quite frankly, when it comes to this, I'm looking for a rabid pitbull that hasn't had anything to eat in a while.

 

[Phaedrus]

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

 

[Lear70]

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

Well,,, there's always that write-in option.

 

[Ty Webb]

Well, what are you guys waiting for?

I nominate Ty....if I could. bestpilot for VP.

It would be pretty funny if when they post the results, there was a vote for Ty Webb as a write-in for Pres. . . . hate to waste a valid vote if the election is close, but maybe Phaedrus can still log in and cast his!

 

[Phaedrus]

That would be worth it just to cut, paste and start a great thread here. I could log in to CrewTrac up until a short while ago, but now, alas I cannot. I checked the NPA website not too long ago so I could read up on the situation, but no luck there either. Maybe if I send it snail-mail...?