Airtran Pilots, Don't buy that new house yet..

[T45Flyer]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

Here is a thought. The Southwest pilot group sits on negotiations for the next, lets say, 7-8 years. We already are making nice money, plus a possible variable raise and a negotiated fixed raise coming in the next few years. We are doing fine, and Airtran pilots can give up over 500+K of lost income. That extra cash would be nice, but I'm sure the QOL is really what you want. You can be the North pilots, we will take South(west).

Now, maybe, you could be reasonable, and take the huge financial windfall and give up some seniority to get it. I doubt it. Just a thought.

I am sure glad that 4 out of 5 of our Negotiating Committee are First Officers.

My bet is a Arbitrator. But I wouldn't be fooled by your union into thinking this windfall will be easy, or fun. Might want to hold off on the high fives for a little while.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[bladeusa]

Getting bought and having to work under your CBA doesn't count as a windfall at the expensive of another pilot group. Its simply luck wether the rates are higher or lower. Seniority is whole different animal.
Good luck to us all.

 

[Britpilot]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

So where did you gain this information? I wasn't aware SLI negotiations had begun yet. Or is it you are jumping to conclusions? It seems that you are not happy about the purchase, so go tell Gary. I'm sure he will luv to hear from you.

Have a peachy day.

 

[bizicmo]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

Here is a thought. The Southwest pilot group sits on negotiations for the next, lets say, 7-8 years. We already are making nice money, plus a possible variable raise and a negotiated fixed raise coming in the next few years. We are doing fine, and Airtran pilots can give up over 500+K of lost income. That extra cash would be nice, but I'm sure the QOL is really what you want. You can be the North pilots, we will take South(west).

Now, maybe, you could be reasonable, and take the huge financial windfall and give up some seniority to get it. I doubt it. Just a thought.

I am sure glad that 4 out of 5 of our Negotiating Committee are First Officers.

My bet is a Arbitrator. But I wouldn't be fooled by your union into thinking this windfall will be easy, or fun. Might want to hold off on the high fives for a little while.

Have a wonderful day.

Welcome to the real world where you don't always get your way. Grow up.

 

[doh]

T45, aren't you stuck with Allegheny/Mohawk regardless. If negotiations get stuck, you get the arbitrator and then you get what you get.

 

[desert rat]

Guys, need some help here. I just crunched some numbers from our pay scales. On a 12 yr avg pay scale, SW FO rates are 68% higher and the Capt rates are 56% higher than ATs. Is this possible? Wow!

 

[PSL]

As you well imagine our internal (union) website is white hot with predictions, joy, anger, dismay, disgust and probably every emotion in between.

I don't speak for anyone other than myself.

I am hoping for the best (an amicable) resolution that utilizes a career expectation model to proffer a solution. Having said that, I am expecting and preparing for a protracted battle.

Many first officers who have shared their thoughts with me are stunned and angry. Many feel that they were sold out by SWAPA and SWA (and that is before the first integration plan is floated). The background as to why they feel that way is obvious to many of us who are in the left seat. Age 65, zero growth ... actually we have shrunk a fair amount since late 2008, downgrades and now the possibility that Relative Seniority could push them further from upgrade all contribute to some pretty fired up first officers.

This proposed merger has the potential to be a grand slam for the pilots or a disaster which most likely will define Gary Kelly's legacy as CEO of SWA.

Again, I am praying reasonable men (and women) will prevail.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Started today.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100928-712857.html

NEW YORK (Dow Jones)--The pilots' unions from Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV) and AirTran Holdings Inc. (AAI) are scheduled to meet Tuesday afternoon, taking the first step toward easing the groups' integration into one workforce now that the companies have agreed to merge.
Unlike the failed Southwest bid for Frontier Airlines last year, the offer to buy AirTran for $4.1 billion is not contingent on any union approval. However, experts say getting the pilots to back the merger will help its long-term success.
Both unions have said they are "cautiously optimistic" over the agreement and are planning to meet in Dallas to discuss its impact.
"I expect a smooth transition all the way around," said Jerry Glass, a labor expert with F&H Solutions Group, in an interview.
The biggest hurdle will be combining the unions' seniority lists, which govern a pilot's pay rate through the type of aircraft and routes assigned. Southwest pilots outnumber their AirTran peers by more than three to one, which could allow them to move their members to the top of the list.
That was the situation when Southwest tried to purchase Frontier Airlines out of bankruptcy in 2009. The Southwest pilot union's insistence of putting Frontier's 700 pilots at the bottom of the list helped scuttle that deal.
But AirTran wasn't under risk of bankruptcy, and that puts its pilots in a better bargaining position, experts said.
Furthermore, management is pushing for a "fair and equitable" combination, a strong hint that all pilots should receive a place on the new list relative to their current position.
"That takes one step out of the process that could otherwise be complicated and sticky," according to Bill Swelbar, a labor expert with the Massachusetts Institute of Technology's International Center for Air Transportation.
If the list integration is completed fairly, AirTran pilots would be an eager and happy addition to Southwest, experts added. Pilots at Orlando, Fla.-based AirTran have been working without a contract for about six years, and last spring authorized the union to call a strike if negotiations with management didn't move forward.
Southwest pilots have a contract, a much better relationship with their management and receive better compensation that their AirTran peers.
"For AirTran employees, the merger will mean greater job security and stable employment, and higher wages and benefits under the Southwest contracts," F&H's Glass said.
The Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association has 5,900 members while the AirTran branch of the Air Line Pilots Association has 1,700

 

[bladeusa]

T45 and Co..
Can someone from SWA explain to me why relative seniority is such a bad deal for you?
i mean.. do you really think that airtran is going to come in and get better then relative seniority and you are going to get worse? That means worst case you will be right where you are today, only with future growth.
I understand the upgrade times might be delayed.. but which side will now face a longer delay?
This is a lot different then buying (F9) a company in bankruptcy and shrinking and trying to preserve jobs. -I for one prefer the DAL/NWA model over the LCC/AW one.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

It really shocks me that Airtran pilots believe that they will get up to a $70,000 a year pay raise and keep their relative seniority and not give up anything to the Southwest pilot group. Really?

Here is a thought. The Southwest pilot group sits on negotiations for the next, lets say, 7-8 years. We already are making nice money, plus a possible variable raise and a negotiated fixed raise coming in the next few years. We are doing fine, and Airtran pilots can give up over 500+K of lost income. That extra cash would be nice, but I'm sure the QOL is really what you want. You can be the North pilots, we will take South(west).

Now, maybe, you could be reasonable, and take the huge financial windfall and give up some seniority to get it. I doubt it. Just a thought.

I am sure glad that 4 out of 5 of our Negotiating Committee are First Officers.

My bet is a Arbitrator. But I wouldn't be fooled by your union into thinking this windfall will be easy, or fun. Might want to hold off on the high fives for a little while.

Have a wonderful day.

Welcome to the pure LUV.....what a Jackhole!