Airtran pilot staffing

[JT12345]

So we are not getting rid of our current 141 airplanes. Just selling future ones to offset the futures of oil. What are all these rumors about furloughing?

I have never seen an airline furlough without downsizing their fleet. We havn't grown in about what about 3 months, and havn't had any classes for 2 months. Are we really that fat on crews?

Furloughing pilots for a couple of months will cost more than it will save due to downgrades, and switching airplanes. We have to train new instructors too.

A 5% reduction in overall flying and a 2 month seasonal 10% reduction doesn't seem worth it.

 

[PCL_128]

It's more than that, though. The 5% reduction is compared to last year's block hours. The reduction from this July to September will be 20% of our total block hours. That's a big cut. Does it justify furloughs? I doubt it, but they didn't ask me.

 

[AAflyer]

It's more than that, though. The 5% reduction is compared to last year's block hours. The reduction from this July to September will be 20% of our total block hours. That's a big cut. Does it justify furloughs? I doubt it, but they didn't ask me.

Did Airtran have the B737-800 orders as well the -700 orders, or were there options for the -800?


Thanks

AAflyer

 

[PCL_128]

Did Airtran have the B737-800 orders as well the -700 orders, or were there options for the -800?


Thanks

AAflyer

We only had -700s on order, but a bunch of the orders had options to convert to -800s. When I got hired there was a lot of speculation about converting options to get the bigger airframes, but that's obviously changed now. Why, are you guys looking for -800 slots?

 

[AAflyer]

We only had -700s on order, but a bunch of the orders had options to convert to -800s. When I got hired there was a lot of speculation about converting options to get the bigger airframes, but that's obviously changed now. Why, are you guys looking for -800 slots?

We are taking delivery of roughly 70 -800s over the next 2 years. I wasn't sure if those would be readily available or if some carriers were canceling their -800 orders/ options.


AAflyer

 

[Wheres the van?]

We only had -700s on order, but a bunch of the orders had options to convert to -800s. When I got hired there was a lot of speculation about converting options to get the bigger airframes, but that's obviously changed now. Why, are you guys looking for -800 slots?

I would be careful of whom you invite into your house.Airtran could be picked up by AA for around $3 billion,sales of gates and other assets would net AA around $1billion,leaving AA with a fuel efficient immediate replacement for there MDs,$2billion for 141 aircraft saving AA vast sums of money in the short term would pay for itself very quickly.But dont worry APA will make you an offer you cant refuse.

 

[PCL_128]

I would be careful of whom you invite into your house.Airtran could be picked up by AA for around $3 billion,sales of gates and other assets would net AA around $1billion,leaving AA with a fuel efficient immediate replacement for there MDs,$2billion for 141 aircraft saving AA vast sums of money in the short term would pay for itself very quickly.But dont worry APA will make you an offer you cant refuse.

Huh? I didn't "invite" anyone in to our house. I was simply asking him if he thought AMR might be looking to pick up the slots that we have given up over the next few years. I don't foresee any acquisitions in this environment, anyway. No one can get $3 billion financing in this credit environment. The era of mergers and acquisitions in this industry ended as quickly as it began.

 

[flyzimex]

No one can get $3 billion financing in this credit environment. .

Not a major of course, but XOJet recently came pretty close with $2.5 billion :beer: .

Now back to the original topic at hand..

FZ

 

[Wheres the van?]

Not a major of course, but XOJet recently came pretty close with $2.5 billion :beer: .

Now back to the original topic at hand..

FZ

No need to worry were the financing might come from(stock swap,British Airways 25% stake in AA,simple assumption of Airtran debt or even new equity)because such a move would be inspired,but ironically most of the US airline second and third rate CEOs are more concerned with trying to bake the worlds cheapest pizza,so Airtran remains safe while these morons remain at the helm.(Dont get me wrong,Airtran is a fantastic operation,great people great service Im merely playing devils advocate or is it greedy capitalist its hard to tell these days).

 

[PCL_128]

Not a major of course, but XOJet recently came pretty close with $2.5 billion :beer: .

Now back to the original topic at hand..

FZ

That's actually pretty impressive. It is a fractional, though, so they may be seen as a safer credit risk. Everything I've heard about the failed UAL/CAL merger was that it fell apart due to problems getting money for the transaction. Airlines aren't exactly seen as good credit risks right now.

 

[Max Powers]

I would be careful of whom you invite into your house.Airtran could be picked up by AA for around $3 billion,sales of gates and other assets would net AA around $1billion,leaving AA with a fuel efficient immediate replacement for there MDs,$2billion for 141 aircraft saving AA vast sums of money in the short term would pay for itself very quickly.But dont worry APA will make you an offer you cant refuse.

Let me guess you is not college edumacated????

AirTran's market cap. or Total shares outstanding x cost per share is less than 300 million. This means someone could easily buy out the company; offering a small premium over market cap. In other words 400 million would get you AAI - lock, stock and barrel. However, we have liabilities and a merger with AA (or really anyone save SWA) would not make any sense for the take over company.

 

[AAflyer]

Wow, only on flight info,

I simply asked if AAI had -800s on oder or option. I know we may want to accelerate the delivery of even more 737s if it is possible.


Cheers

AAflyer

 

[pipejockey]

However, we have liabilities and a merger with AA (or really anyone save SWA) would not make any sense for the take over company.

For 400 million, why wouldn't it make sense for Delta to buy valuejet, then shut it down? It would be best for the industry as a whole. Atlanta wouldn't be a bad place! Oh but wait, I am sure our wonderful government policies wouldn't let that stand. They are obsessed with unreasonably low fares. It would be a catastrophe if we eliminated some competition, so as to raise fares. If our government would just let the weak wither up and die already, most of us would be better off, except for the traveling public anyway, but I don't give a damn about them, as the bottom 20% of them have no business flying anyway at the prices they are paying. So much for capitalism.

 

[climbhappy]

after 9/11, you guys pulled together and (took paycuts?) so there would be no furloughs. any talk of that? I have a friend who is near the bottom .got on last dec ... thanks

 

[jester757]

Listening to AAI's CEO... the place is for sale if the price is right. Then again we all are for sale---

 

[Britpilot]

For 400 million, why wouldn't it make sense for Delta to buy valuejet, then shut it down? It would be best for the industry as a whole. Atlanta wouldn't be a bad place! Oh but wait, I am sure our wonderful government policies wouldn't let that stand. They are obsessed with unreasonably low fares. It would be a catastrophe if we eliminated some competition, so as to raise fares. If our government would just let the weak wither up and die already, most of us would be better off, except for the traveling public anyway, but I don't give a damn about them, as the bottom 20% of them have no business flying anyway at the prices they are paying. So much for capitalism.

Shame we can't shut you down and make the world a better place.

 

[PCL_128]

after 9/11, you guys pulled together and (took paycuts?) so there would be no furloughs. any talk of that? I have a friend who is near the bottom .got on last dec ... thanks

I feel bad for your friend looking at a furlough, but there's not a chance in hell that we'll take any concessions. I'm already underpaid as it is.

 

[CitationLover]

I feel bad for your friend looking at a furlough, but there's not a chance in hell that we'll take any concessions. I'm already underpaid as it is.

here here. one can hope the remaining pilots at MEH feel the same way.

 

[Lear70]

I feel bad for your friend looking at a furlough, but there's not a chance in hell that we'll take any concessions. I'm already underpaid as it is.

I'm not so sure about that... especially if the company comes out and says they're looking to furlough 200-300 guys if they don't get "temporary cuts".

Besides the not-so-fuzzy response I got from PL, the letter from MB was pretty clear that he expects furlough announcement and company requests for concessions and didn't come out and say that the NPA wouldn't consider such a request. In fact, what he DID say was:

[FONT=&quot]Our goal is to work for a viable airline with a long-term future that will provide all AirTran pilots with a stable, healthy career. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT] That, to me, says they think they're coming and are going to take a serious look at it. That's one of the reasons I submitted my comments on the private board last night; want to make sure there's no mistaking my position in regards to DFR issues with any proposed LOA or T.A.

My issues aside, you're going to have a lot of scared pilots out there right now. There's going to be over 1,000 pilots on the street again by the end of the year and no one's really hiring, even the regionals; several of my Lear F/O's have interviewed and been tentatively hired by 4 different regionals, then put on "indefinite hold" for class dates.

You and I know pilot concessions are a drop in the bucket towards the making or breaking of a major airline, but we represent probably 5% of the pilot population (most of which are on this board which is why you get a 90% hard-line response on here, but only 40-60% when it comes to actual vote); most of them will vote for whoever has the loudest voice while still being a safe bet. That's why we were able to kill the T.A. last summer; "current book is better than the proposed T.A." people knew what they had and could continue to live under it until something better came along.

This is a different ballgame. Up to 30% of the seniority list is affected: Captains displaced to F/O, F/O's furloughed. Even if 20% of those voted No, you'd still have 25% of the total seniority list voting Yes to the cuts to save their jobs/positions. Then you have the 10% of the pilots who vote for "whatever is best for the company", no matter what. That's 35% of the pilot group. Say 5% more who don't want to be back on reserve with that reduction, and now you're at 40% of the pilot group voting Yes. All they need from the rest of the pilots is 1 in 4 of them to vote Yes for the concessions, and it would be done.

No one is going to stand up and fight it as vocally as we did, as they see what's happened to the person who last spoke out so vocally AND there's no "safe" ground to lobby from in this scenario.

Fear is a powerful motivator and, if concessions come to vote from the BoD, especially with a "recommend" endorsement and, IMHO, even with a "neutral" endorsement, I think it will pass. Not that I'm saying it should, I just understand the old ALPA adage that's true no matter what union you work under:

"Hearts and minds"...

 

[PCL_128]

I'm not so sure about that... especially if the company comes out and says they're looking to furlough 200-300 guys if they don't get "temporary cuts".

If they furlough 300, then I'll be in the line of fire, and I'll still vote NO to any concessions to supposedly save my own job.

Besides the not-so-fuzzy response I got from PL

Remarkable restraint on your part in responding to him. I probably would have gone off. The sad thing is that he's the BOD member that I trust more than any of the rest of them. If he thinks that way, then what are the rest thinking?

Fear is a powerful motivator and, if concessions come to vote from the BoD, especially with a "recommend" endorsement and, IMHO, even with a "neutral" endorsement, I think it will pass.

I'm not so sure. I don't doubt that the NPA BOD would agree to it, but I don't think the pilot group would accept it. The sentiment I'm picking up on the line, even from the senior guys, doesn't seem to be conducive to concessions. But I could be wrong.