AirTran or JetBlue

[scudrunner]

Where would you go if you were offered the job?

 

[Sailpilot]

Both delaying orders, both having Rev issues, both have about 1700 pilots.

JB 3 year CA = $74.00 per hour (Emb-190 @ 100 seats) 3% 401K

Tranny 3 year CA = $106.00 per hour (B717 @ 105ish) 10.5% B Fund

Max JB pay = $139.00 per hour

Max Tranny = $153.00 per hour

I hate to say it, with my background! But simple math drives you to the life of being a Tranny!

Edited: Oh ya, if you get stuck in the right seat. Tranny max FO pay is also higher. Did I mention the 10.5% B fund?

 

[curtaindriver]

Jetblue has pilots who left AirTran. Three I met when I interviewed, and one while in class. Don't know anyone leaving JetBlue for AirTran. Just a thought, nothing scientific.

CD

 

[rudderdog]

Jetblue has pilots who left AirTran. Three I met when I interviewed, and one while in class. Don't know anyone leaving JetBlue for AirTran. Just a thought, nothing scientific.

CD

I think the reasoning behing Sailpilot's opinion is today's outlook on both companies. A year or two ago that opinion might have been much different as Jetblue had 2 year Airbus Captains and no resistance in sight. That was a good enough reason many pilots left good jobs (Airtran, UPS, ATA, AWA etc.) for JetBlue. Just in the last 6 months or so things have mellowed out (fuel, ac orders, small jet pay rates etc..). Although still looking bright for both companies, it is a tough choice. This is when location makes a big diff.

 

[curtaindriver]

I think the reasoning behing Sailpilot's opinion is today's outlook on both companies. A year or two ago that opinion might have been much different as Jetblue had 2 year Airbus Captains and no resistance in sight. That was a good enough reason many pilots left good jobs (Airtran, UPS, ATA, AWA etc.) for JetBlue. Just in the last 6 months or so things have mellowed out (fuel, ac orders, small jet pay rates etc..). Although still looking bright for both companies, it is a tough choice. This is when location makes a big diff.

Actually his point is not outlook, it is also looking at historic averages and upgrades. The outlook points to much greater growth at JetBlue, not withstanding the fact that it could all change. Not trying to get into a A vs. B argument. I just pointed at my opinion of things I've seen and experienced.

There is no debate about this, that 10.5% B Fund kicks us square in the "junk"!! Wish we had that.

CD

 

[LearLove]

roll the dice - thats what it boils down to in the end. Look back when your 60..... or 65 - please NO.

9 years ago at age 23 I tought my friend who was 18 at the time his PVT while flying 135 at the same time. I then left for the commuters hell bent on being a second generation United pilot during an age when we were all going to be international Capts by the time we were 35. My commuter airline stalled out as the 18 year old progressed in his ratings and was hired by an expanding regional. Today he is my Capt.

Feeling luckey?

 

[800Dog]

Where would you go if you were offered the job?

Forget both. Go to UPS or FedEx. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the industry.

 

[Fins Up]

=Tranny 3 year CA = $106.00 per hour (B717 @ 105ish) 10.5% B Fund

I predict that in the near future A and B funds will go the way of the dodo. Whatever you decide, I wouldn't put very much stock (no pun intended) in anything other than your own 401 in your own name.

I also predict some day we'll see an NFL expansion team playing in JetBlue stadium. You heard it hear first.

 

[LearLove]

Forget both. Go to UPS or FedEx. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the industry.

why - their time will come.

 

[AMDFlyer]

airtran without a doubt...they are delaying the order just because fall season is usually slow but despite that they will add routes one by one within a reasonable time, despite that they still fly real airplanes and they will go with all 737 fleet while they fade progressively the good ols 717...and the pilot don't have to pick-up trash between seats

 

[TheGuat]

Quote:
Originally Posted by 800Dog
Forget both. Go to UPS or FedEx. Otherwise, get a real job and leave the industry.

why - their time will come.

Just where do you think it will come from?

 

[Dumb Pilot]

If the Industry consolidates and some of the legacies merge as some annalists are predicting. The resulting networks with their very profitable International markets and their low operational costs resulting from newly negotiated agreements with employees, vendors and consolidation of fleets. Will support a price war within the limited market of the LCC's that will crush this companies. I hope I'm wrong but I see the next Peoples Express written all over this two companies.
The good news is that the resulting legacy carriers will create a hiring boom even greater than before 9/11. With over 50% of their seniority lists to retire in the next 10 years

 

[Fins Up]

Alright, no one likes a spelling nazi but come one. Are we educated at all??

It's analysts, not annalists.
"... vendors and consolidation of fleets. Will support a price war..." Proper grammar and punctuation would be nice.
"...all over this two companies." I think you mean these two companies.

For crying out loud, have a little pride. Dumb pilot ehh?

 

[GogglesPisano]

The good news is that the resulting legacy carriers will create a hiring boom even greater than before 9/11. With over 50% of their seniority lists to retire in the next 10 years

Consolidation will cause the loss of thousands of potentialpilot jobs -- both at the legacy and regional level. Actual jobs may disappear as well. Lots of retirements at CAL and (soon) NWA may mitigate this. Very few at UAL and DAL. AA has about 2,800 furloughees to recall.

Hiring bom? Is this Yip?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I'd say go to the first one that hires you... They're both good, solid companies with great employees. However, I'd side with our management as they are here for the long haul to see this company succeed. Additionally, with a new training facility, two new hangars, a hotel on the way, and a brand new 27-gate terminal being built in JFK and an 11-gate terminal in BOS equates to a lot of potential growth.

 

[800Dog]

why - their time will come.

And their time will be before or after Airtran and Jetblues? Go to UPS or FedEx, no brainer.

 

[seahorse]

Go to UPS or FDX, if not then go to SWA or CAL.

Jetblue downsides - you clean the cabin.
Valujet downsides- you have to fly with ty.

Enough said. Work Hard! Fly Right!!

 

[Captain Overs]

Go to CAL?

Look at the pay rates. Yikes!

 

[Dogwood]

Where would you go if you were offered the job?

Scud,

Look at both companies, and try to decide who has the best business plan. Don't decide based on where the crew base is or who pays a few dollars per hour more, or who has the best retirement.

All these things can can change at a moments notice. At my prior legacy carrier we were paid well, had a great retirement, great group of fellow coworkers, but not much of a biz plan. Quickly after 15 years there, I found myself on the street with no retirement and no job.

The bottom line is don't make your decision simply based on shallow views. Look at the entire picture.

Airtran and JetBlue are pretty even right now, so that one is a tough call.

 

[mnboyev]

No Hotel at AirTran.. no fancy training center .. ours is leased and owned by Boeing. No lovey dovey junk.. No cute names on our jets.. No Managment love of any work group.. period.. negotiate for your pay and benefits. Old school airline mentality... imagine that.

However, they do a good job keeping the pennies in the bank and not blowing their wad. And there does seem to be fair respect for the pilots and mechanics.. Not so sure bout the other groups.

Fair Pay.. Solid routes..(this week).. Good regular folks flying the line.. No egos.. Good equipment.. Pretty good re-investment in the company infrastructure, although they are having some growing pains.. not too bad.. They are just turning into a large carrier and the challenges are tough.. Probably the same for Jet Blue.

With that said, I like AirTran and make a decent living... decent schedule.. retirement ok for the current environment.. They guys I'm flying with are cool and safe.. .. Never too togh getting to work..

Load em up ... move em out. 35 minute turns with 100 people and 3 wheel chairs.. Oh...yeah.. ground stop in ATL.. update at the top of the next hour. Oh yeah.. Bio clean up in row 10.. call for a seat cushion baby !!

Fly safe, Good Luck... Jet Blue folks seem read nice and they have a good product. I think they will be just fine as well. Pick your poison.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

I'd say go to the first one that hires you... They're both good, solid companies with great employees. However, I'd side with our management as they are here for the long haul to see this company succeed. Additionally, with a new training facility, two new hangars, a hotel on the way, and a brand new 27-gate terminal being built in JFK and an 11-gate terminal in BOS equates to a lot of potential growth.

And a lot of potential debt.

 

[scrub]

And a lot of potential debt.

ya gotta spend money to make money.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

And a lot of potential debt.

It is only potential if you go into bankruptcy. Then you either shed it or renegotiate some sweetheart rates.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

And a lot of potential debt.

Nothing potentional about it. JetBlue has a lot of debt for its size. A consequence of their early, high growth rate.

The good news is with oil coming down both look pretty good. I like the 737, 717 and Atlanta. It would be Airtran for me.

Can you live on FO pay longer than your buds are telling you that you will be an FO?



Most importantly--

Don't go until you have enough PIC time for a career change if necessary

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Jetblue has pilots who left AirTran. Three I met when I interviewed, and one while in class. Don't know anyone leaving JetBlue for AirTran. Just a thought, nothing scientific.

CD

Wow! When was this? What a difference 3 years makes (if this was a few years ago)

I've heard all sorts of stories about Folks turning down SWA for Frontier and leaving Frontier for SWA in the recent past. Before 9/11--FedEx guys leaving for AA, DAL and UAL while others turning down class dates for UAL, DAL and AA for Fedex or UPS.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

why - their time will come.

paranoia will destroy ya

 

[400ADude]

Go to either as a stepping stone to SWA, FedEx, or UPS. I would not make Jetblue or Critter into a career though.

 

[JAM-BRO]

Airtran!!!!!

 

[c9skytrain]

AAI gives 10.5% to a 401K starting the second year. No B fund.

 

[Ty Webb]

Go to either as a stepping stone to SWA, FedEx, or UPS. I would not make Jetblue or Critter into a career though.

Don't worry, 400A, you'll never get to make that decision!.SeaWhore, most guys consider it a privilege . . . then they get to thank me for knocking your miniscule member in the dirt..