AirTran Net Income of $134.7 Million for 2009

[maxblast72]

thus the large profit management made.

I think the professional pilots of Airtran have helped make these profits a reality too. I would be willing to bet the mediator is starting to realize the company is intentionally slowing the negotiation process to delay the inevitable cost increase coming. Hopefully, we can obtain a release when ALPA thinks the time is right. Let's also hope the Airtran pilot group is ready to use their leverage during this cooling off period. We still have many fence riders that need convincing.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

uhhhh....not good- thus the large profit management made.

Wow! Do you fly for AirTran? Bet you're real popular with the other pilots if you go around sayin' that stuff!

 

[Penguin46]

The double wide life

Except using the published aircraft delivery schedule through 2016, the average growth is probably going to be closer to 6% cause a timeline of 12 years to double in size. The bottom 400 FOs at Airtran (currently) need to plan on still being in the right seat at the end of 2016 (after our remaining 55 737s deliveries) and vote on the next TA based on those projections. That means some guys hired in 2006 at Airtran will still be in the right seat (10th year FOs).

Still, not a bad job in the left seat; but the right seaters could make a better living elsewhere. The right seaters, presently, have little to lose-even in this economy.

I'm surprised the regional workforce hasn't imploded yet...perhaps younger pilot with less career earning expectations. Perhaps I don't know what the he11 I'm talking about...

 

[ron burgundy]

Still, not a bad job in the left seat; but the right seaters could make a better living elsewhere. The right seaters, presently, have little to lose-even in this economy.

I'm surprised the regional workforce hasn't imploded yet...perhaps younger pilot with less career earning expectations. Perhaps I don't know what the he11 I'm talking about...

Left seat....Yeah. All that really means is one less person to answer to. For some of you ,one less c@ck to suck. This whole thing is for a$$holes. Unfortunately, I didn't follow my MOM's advice...have a backup plan. 23 years invested in this crap and I have become everything that I despise.
An Airline Pilot.

 

[maxblast72]

Still, not a bad job in the left seat; but the right seaters could make a better living elsewhere. The right seaters, presently, have little to lose-even in this economy.

Looking at some numbers posted on-line, Airtran captains appear to be around the 95th percentile for income in America and first officers around the 70th percentile. While it is true some intelligent, motivated, hard working first officers (and possibly some captains) could probably make more outside Airtran, it is not guaranteed with 15 million American workers (some of which are very qualified) looking for work and small businesses having trouble getting start up capital from banks in this environment.

That being said, I believe that the Airtran's current position (and record net profit last year) will support some significant contractual gains especially for our first officers.

 

[pipejockey]

Looking at some numbers posted on-line, Airtran captains appear to be around the 95th percentile for income in America and first officers around the 70th percentile. While it is true some intelligent, motivated, hard working first officers (and possibly some captains) could probably make more outside Airtran, it is not guaranteed with 15 million American workers (some of which are very qualified) looking for work and small businesses having trouble getting start up capital from banks in this environment.

That being said, I believe that the Airtran's current position (and record net profit last year) will support some significant contractual gains especially for our first officers.

When you start talking about where someone's income ranks in terms of percentile, you are comparing us to every adult in the country. That includes the the high school dropouts, drug addicts, alcoholics that can't hold jobs. It includes those collecting unemployment, those working part time by choice, it includes people that could in no way shape or form do our jobs. How about we compare our earnings to all full time employed college graduates with at least a 4 year degree that can pass extensive background checks and then see how our income measure up. We'd be average (50th percentile) at best. We deserve far far better than many of the folks I have described above that couldn't make anything of themselves. Why do you justify these horrid wages paid to people who the management and the general public expects so much from?

 

[maxblast72]

Why do you justify these horrid wages paid to people who the management and the general public expects so much from?

I have my personal strike fund saved up and am ready to fight for our fair portion of Airtran's success.

Attrition at Airtran is just about nil so I find it amazing how some people talk about how easy it is to get a replacement job making better money in this economy. You have to be smart, hard working, and a good networker to get a decent paying job in this economy. The competition is tough out there with alot of well qualified people out of work.

 

[pilotyip]

in the end

We deserve far far better than many of the folks I have described above that couldn't make anything of themselves. Why do you justify these horrid wages paid to people who the management and the general public expects so much from?

In the end the marginal consumer of airline tickets will determine pilot pay and airline profitability. Raise the ticket price a $1.00 and the marginal flyer will change airlines. BTW Comparing college grad wages did you include my nephew with a degree in French History who works at Boarders for $18K/yr. or my niece with a degree in Art, who makes beds in a Nursing home for $21K/yr, or another nephew with a degree in Photography who makes $8K/yr as a part time book binder, lives at home, or another niece with a degree in Art who works in an Art Gallery and made $5K/y on commissions last year. Or would you compare that to my non-college grad sister in laws brother who runs a muffler shop and makes over $200K/yr. Pilots are in the upper income no matter how you look at it, and if you like to fly is a fantastic way to make a living.

 

[Colonel Savage]

Two out of three are liberal arts degrees, everyone knows they don't pay. The 200K muffler shop makes sense; a lot of self-made millionaires run their own scrap yards, used heavy truck parts supply yards, mobile home sales lots, etc.

Doctors, Lawyers, and a lot of pilots spend a lot of money trying to "look successful" with the big houses and expensive cars and toys. Doctors and Lawyers have to, in order to attract clientele and appear successful to their peers. Pilots don't have to, they get paid according to their CBA, so the choice is ours.

The guys who run the scrap yards, sell spare parts or mobile homes don't have to spend their money on affluence, so they save it.

So should we.

 

[pipejockey]

In the end the marginal consumer of airline tickets will determine pilot pay and airline profitability.

You're wrong! Managements continual and never-ending dumping of capacity in the marketplace, requiring prices to be charged that don't cover the costs of operating current capacity. Does the market really need 30 flights a day from LGA to ORD? I think not. But it's the only way to keep fares low. What a travesty it would be to actually charge a fare that covers costs.



And you know you still, nor has anyone else answered the question I have posed many times over. Why does the consumer of airline tickets dictate our pay but it doesn't dictate upper managements and the executives pay? I have stated before that a CEO in the 1970's was paid 40 times that of his average labor. Yet today, they are paid 400 times that of average labor. So what justifies that today? It seems reasonable that the difference in pay ought to remain the same with the passage of time, yet our pay has not come anywhere close to keeping up with inflation for over 30 years, while their has exceeded inflation many times over. The foxes are operating the chicken house. There is truly no end to managements greed in corporate America. It's immoral.

 

[pilotyip]

management envy?

You're wrong! Managements continual and never-ending dumping of capacity in the marketplace, requiring prices to be charged that don't cover the costs of operating current capacity. Does the market really need 30 flights a day from LGA to ORD? I think not. But it's the only way to keep fares low. What a travesty it would be to actually charge a fare that covers costs..

Do I detech management envy? If you have the answers it is your duty to step up and save the industry. I understand your frustration with the industry, but there are no easy solutions in a market with too much capacity and instant access to the cheapest ticket on any route. However if you not sell seats below cost you go out of business. It makes the difference in the one or two additional seats sold per flight to ensure profitability. Anyone read Hard Landing? AAL's Crandall came up with yield management. It goes like this you sell low demand seats in advance for below cost, maybe there is 5 seats on Friday, 15 seats on Tuesdays that sell below cost. As those seats fill the price goes up. Leaving those seats empty will cost the airline $M's, and once the flight leaves those seat are like spoiled fruit at the super market, they have no value. Unused seat can not be stored, they cannot be inventoried for future use, and they are useless. In order to pay for the airplane it must fly 10-14 hours per day, it must fly Tuesday and Wednesday. These are low travel days; these are the days the flier with no schedule to keep will buy tickets to ensure the airline comes cost to covering cost on low yield days. I am sure there are some Aviation Management College degred guys who could make meaningful input to this discussion. BTW You could tell your airline if they don't raise your pay, you will shut it down to show them who is boss, SWA would love it.

 

[Smarta$$]

You're wrong! Managements continual and never-ending dumping of capacity in the marketplace, requiring prices to be charged that don't cover the costs of operating current capacity. Does the market really need 30 flights a day from LGA to ORD? I think not. But it's the only way to keep fares low. What a travesty it would be to actually charge a fare that covers costs.



And you know you still, nor has anyone else answered the question I have posed many times over. Why does the consumer of airline tickets dictate our pay but it doesn't dictate upper managements and the executives pay? I have stated before that a CEO in the 1970's was paid 40 times that of his average labor. Yet today, they are paid 400 times that of average labor. So what justifies that today? It seems reasonable that the difference in pay ought to remain the same with the passage of time, yet our pay has not come anywhere close to keeping up with inflation for over 30 years, while their has exceeded inflation many times over. The foxes are operating the chicken house. There is truly no end to managements greed in corporate America. It's immoral.

I just don't understand why pilots, and employees in general, do not understand these basic FACTS. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Smarta$$]

Do I detech management envy? If you have the answers it is your duty to step up and save the industry. I understand your frustration with the industry, but there are no easy solutions in a market with too much capacity and instant access to the cheapest ticket on any route. However if you not sell seats below cost you go out of business. It makes the difference in the one or two additional seats sold per flight to ensure profitability. Anyone read Hard Landing? AAL's Crandall came up with yield management. It goes like this you sell low demand seats in advance for below cost, maybe there is 5 seats on Friday, 15 seats on Tuesdays that sell below cost. As those seats fill the price goes up. Leaving those seats empty will cost the airline $M's, and once the flight leaves those seat are like spoiled fruit at the super market, they have no value. Unused seat can not be stored, they cannot be inventoried for future use, and they are useless. In order to pay for the airplane it must fly 10-14 hours per day, it must fly Tuesday and Wednesday. These are low travel days; these are the days the flier with no schedule to keep will buy tickets to ensure the airline comes cost to covering cost on low yield days. I am sure there are some Aviation Management College degred guys who could make meaningful input to this discussion. BTW You could tell your airline if they don't raise your pay, you will shut it down to show them who is boss, SWA would love it.

Funny how you ignored his second question. You have no answer because you are a management tool who will never be honest about our best interests.

 

[pilotyip]

Ah! FI at its best

Funny how you ignored his second question. You have no answer because you are a management tool who will never be honest about our best interests.

A little name calling to start the day. I didn't know I was required to answer all parts of any post in order to answer one part of any post. Is that in the FI disclosure rules? I did not address it because I also think it is outlandish that they make that much money, but what can be done about it? Follow the Russian method of income redistribution, which is kill'em and keep the money in the pockets of upper grade gov't officials? BTW How many management people at AT make more than the top paid Captain? I am going to bet it is less than a dozen.

 

[pipejockey]

I did not address it because I also think it is outlandish that they make that much money, but what can be done about it? Follow the Russian method of income redistribution, which is kill'em and keep the money in the pockets of upper grade gov't officials? BTW How many management people at AT make more than the top paid Captain? I am going to bet it is less than a dozen.

The typical attitude of the American sheeple. We are like sheep being led to the slaughter. So you just throw up your hands and let mgt. have their way with you! We let them not only maintain their earning power for the last 30 years while we see ours cut drastically, but we let them increase theirs many times over because as you say..."but what can we do about it". Pretty sad. I'm glad our forefathers didn't have your attitude when they decided to overthrow a government and create the United States of America. Yet we, their descendants, can't even reign in executive and upper management pay and bring in line todays current economic disparities of pay between those who have and those who have not.

And I am going to bet that the average of the top 25 non-pilot earners at AirTran are higher than the average earnings of the top 10% of the pilots, all of whom have probably been with the company for many, many, many years to the tune of 20 to 30+ years unlike these management types that receive high pay right from the start. No starting at the bottom of a seniority list and pay scale. These management types will be earning these high wages for many years to come as well. By the time a pilot gets to the top of the pay scale they don't have many years left. Pilots jobs are put in jeopardy every 6 mos via a medical. A large percentage of us will not make it through an entire career without having a medical issue that prevents us from doing our jobs for a time, another issue management types don't have. Big difference when comparing the top pilots pay to managements.

 

[pilotyip]

Tell me how you are going fix it?

The typical attitude of the American sheeple. We are like sheep being led to the slaughter. So you just throw up your hands and let mgt. h....................ing a medical issue that prevents us from doing our jobs for a time, another issue management types don't have. Big difference when comparing the top pilots pay to managements.

Another revolution? Kinda like the Russian or even the American Revolution way just kill everyone who does not agree with you? So tax everything at 100% over your top Captain wages, that would chase a lot of money out of the country. I sense a tremendous amount of unhappiness, a frustration that it can't be the way you want it to be. How come all the unhappy pilots don't get together and start the perfect airline from an employee point of view? Many pilots are very well off; they could start buying the stock of airline until they had complete ownership. Then vote themselves on the board, hire a really pilot friendly CEO at around $50K/yr and build the perfect place to work. This would seem to solve all the problems pilot face in this industry. BTW Please PM with which airline you guys are planning on buying, I will get in on the action, I could buy in low and then sell later as demand drives up the price. BTW You dodged the question of maybe less than a dozen make more than the top Captain, came back with 10% thing, which would mean you a lot of Captains at AT make more than a lot of the 25 you guessed at.