AirTran Net Income of $134.7 Million for 2009

[pilotyip]

management envy?

You're wrong! Managements continual and never-ending dumping of capacity in the marketplace, requiring prices to be charged that don't cover the costs of operating current capacity. Does the market really need 30 flights a day from LGA to ORD? I think not. But it's the only way to keep fares low. What a travesty it would be to actually charge a fare that covers costs..

Do I detech management envy? If you have the answers it is your duty to step up and save the industry. I understand your frustration with the industry, but there are no easy solutions in a market with too much capacity and instant access to the cheapest ticket on any route. However if you not sell seats below cost you go out of business. It makes the difference in the one or two additional seats sold per flight to ensure profitability. Anyone read Hard Landing? AAL's Crandall came up with yield management. It goes like this you sell low demand seats in advance for below cost, maybe there is 5 seats on Friday, 15 seats on Tuesdays that sell below cost. As those seats fill the price goes up. Leaving those seats empty will cost the airline $M's, and once the flight leaves those seat are like spoiled fruit at the super market, they have no value. Unused seat can not be stored, they cannot be inventoried for future use, and they are useless. In order to pay for the airplane it must fly 10-14 hours per day, it must fly Tuesday and Wednesday. These are low travel days; these are the days the flier with no schedule to keep will buy tickets to ensure the airline comes cost to covering cost on low yield days. I am sure there are some Aviation Management College degred guys who could make meaningful input to this discussion. BTW You could tell your airline if they don't raise your pay, you will shut it down to show them who is boss, SWA would love it.

 

[Smarta$$]

You're wrong! Managements continual and never-ending dumping of capacity in the marketplace, requiring prices to be charged that don't cover the costs of operating current capacity. Does the market really need 30 flights a day from LGA to ORD? I think not. But it's the only way to keep fares low. What a travesty it would be to actually charge a fare that covers costs.



And you know you still, nor has anyone else answered the question I have posed many times over. Why does the consumer of airline tickets dictate our pay but it doesn't dictate upper managements and the executives pay? I have stated before that a CEO in the 1970's was paid 40 times that of his average labor. Yet today, they are paid 400 times that of average labor. So what justifies that today? It seems reasonable that the difference in pay ought to remain the same with the passage of time, yet our pay has not come anywhere close to keeping up with inflation for over 30 years, while their has exceeded inflation many times over. The foxes are operating the chicken house. There is truly no end to managements greed in corporate America. It's immoral.

I just don't understand why pilots, and employees in general, do not understand these basic FACTS. You hit the nail on the head.

 

[Smarta$$]

Do I detech management envy? If you have the answers it is your duty to step up and save the industry. I understand your frustration with the industry, but there are no easy solutions in a market with too much capacity and instant access to the cheapest ticket on any route. However if you not sell seats below cost you go out of business. It makes the difference in the one or two additional seats sold per flight to ensure profitability. Anyone read Hard Landing? AAL's Crandall came up with yield management. It goes like this you sell low demand seats in advance for below cost, maybe there is 5 seats on Friday, 15 seats on Tuesdays that sell below cost. As those seats fill the price goes up. Leaving those seats empty will cost the airline $M's, and once the flight leaves those seat are like spoiled fruit at the super market, they have no value. Unused seat can not be stored, they cannot be inventoried for future use, and they are useless. In order to pay for the airplane it must fly 10-14 hours per day, it must fly Tuesday and Wednesday. These are low travel days; these are the days the flier with no schedule to keep will buy tickets to ensure the airline comes cost to covering cost on low yield days. I am sure there are some Aviation Management College degred guys who could make meaningful input to this discussion. BTW You could tell your airline if they don't raise your pay, you will shut it down to show them who is boss, SWA would love it.

Funny how you ignored his second question. You have no answer because you are a management tool who will never be honest about our best interests.

 

[pilotyip]

Ah! FI at its best

Funny how you ignored his second question. You have no answer because you are a management tool who will never be honest about our best interests.

A little name calling to start the day. I didn't know I was required to answer all parts of any post in order to answer one part of any post. Is that in the FI disclosure rules? I did not address it because I also think it is outlandish that they make that much money, but what can be done about it? Follow the Russian method of income redistribution, which is kill'em and keep the money in the pockets of upper grade gov't officials? BTW How many management people at AT make more than the top paid Captain? I am going to bet it is less than a dozen.

 

[pipejockey]

I did not address it because I also think it is outlandish that they make that much money, but what can be done about it? Follow the Russian method of income redistribution, which is kill'em and keep the money in the pockets of upper grade gov't officials? BTW How many management people at AT make more than the top paid Captain? I am going to bet it is less than a dozen.

The typical attitude of the American sheeple. We are like sheep being led to the slaughter. So you just throw up your hands and let mgt. have their way with you! We let them not only maintain their earning power for the last 30 years while we see ours cut drastically, but we let them increase theirs many times over because as you say..."but what can we do about it". Pretty sad. I'm glad our forefathers didn't have your attitude when they decided to overthrow a government and create the United States of America. Yet we, their descendants, can't even reign in executive and upper management pay and bring in line todays current economic disparities of pay between those who have and those who have not.

And I am going to bet that the average of the top 25 non-pilot earners at AirTran are higher than the average earnings of the top 10% of the pilots, all of whom have probably been with the company for many, many, many years to the tune of 20 to 30+ years unlike these management types that receive high pay right from the start. No starting at the bottom of a seniority list and pay scale. These management types will be earning these high wages for many years to come as well. By the time a pilot gets to the top of the pay scale they don't have many years left. Pilots jobs are put in jeopardy every 6 mos via a medical. A large percentage of us will not make it through an entire career without having a medical issue that prevents us from doing our jobs for a time, another issue management types don't have. Big difference when comparing the top pilots pay to managements.

 

[pilotyip]

Tell me how you are going fix it?

The typical attitude of the American sheeple. We are like sheep being led to the slaughter. So you just throw up your hands and let mgt. h....................ing a medical issue that prevents us from doing our jobs for a time, another issue management types don't have. Big difference when comparing the top pilots pay to managements.

Another revolution? Kinda like the Russian or even the American Revolution way just kill everyone who does not agree with you? So tax everything at 100% over your top Captain wages, that would chase a lot of money out of the country. I sense a tremendous amount of unhappiness, a frustration that it can't be the way you want it to be. How come all the unhappy pilots don't get together and start the perfect airline from an employee point of view? Many pilots are very well off; they could start buying the stock of airline until they had complete ownership. Then vote themselves on the board, hire a really pilot friendly CEO at around $50K/yr and build the perfect place to work. This would seem to solve all the problems pilot face in this industry. BTW Please PM with which airline you guys are planning on buying, I will get in on the action, I could buy in low and then sell later as demand drives up the price. BTW You dodged the question of maybe less than a dozen make more than the top Captain, came back with 10% thing, which would mean you a lot of Captains at AT make more than a lot of the 25 you guessed at.