Airtran MEC voted no

[USAFftrplt]

If I were a betting guy, and I dont bet much: I think the AT reps went to negotiations without a care in the world for the bottom 50 percent of their pilot group. Its obvious by what they negotiated! I think they thru their junior FO's under the bus. SWAPA bought off on it in a way to appease their ranks. Truth is SWA pilots are not very happy about it either, but to keep their culture in tact and get along with everyone were willing to run with it, and grin and bear it. In a last ditch effort by the AT MEC he asked for more $$$ to drive the bus over the FO's. Then some greedy captain buddy said wait a minute before you drive off, we could get more $$$$ and a better schedule; lets re-negotiate. A hand shake obviously meant nothing.
BTW I dont work for either company. But if I were the junior guys at AT I would be f'ing furious at your MEC for not letting me at least have a vote and letting the MAJORITY decide whether or not to go forward with this crappy deal. After all who knows what the future holds. But if I were in management, and I negotioated a deal and you agreed to it in my face and then did the potomic two step, I can guarantee you......it would not go the way you think. Your word is golden. Playing high school games can leave you without a chair to sit in when the music stops! And if i could, I would try to kick that f'ing chair out from underneath your fat axe if you tried to sit in it.
Sometimes being humble and saying thank you and counting your blessing that you have a job and a good company bought you is worth more than a better schedule and trying to squeeze a few more $$$$ just because you feel entitled!

 

[Music]

As a 6 yr f/o, to have 250+ junior to me flying as captain for the next 10 or so years, and to have someone with my same date of hire at ATN make two years more pay at MY company is no longer acceptable...

I couldn't agree more. That was the problem with SL9/LOA. You're seniority should allow you to do what it can do, not be encumbered by C & Rs.

 

[HighSpeed]

You're saying that there are 250 5th year AirTran Captains ..... ?

I know where you're going with this, I'm not going to bite

I'm at 75-78% on the SWA senority list and there would be that many below me that would have gotten to retain their captain seat. And that was rejected!!!

 

[HighSpeed]

implement it and tell the SWA guys to STFU. Because he doesn't give

The END of what makes SWA special if that happens... Might as well bring in ALPA next...

 

[zippy32]

The only thing more classless than revealing information from the negotiating table is revealing partial and misleading information combined with outright lies.

This attempt to rewrite history is beyond tacky. I will not respond in kind, however I will offer the following FACTS:
- The Seniority List Agreement was reached during direct pilot to pilot negotiations (no lawyers)
- Governance from both unions was fully briefed and aware of the proposals at the table.
- The MEC and MC were in constant contact throughout the negotiation, including when the Agreement in Principle was reached.
- The deal was negotiated fairly and in good faith
- The decision to reject it was the MEC's.

The disinformation and spin from AirTran ALPA needs to stop. It is damaging to the process and is unprofessional. Knock it off.

Rob Zerbe

Wow. I've got my popcorn out. Fly-by-cable, do you care to reply? Lear?

 

[MILF Hunter]

According to our MC, SWAPA would not budge on the list and our guys walked out of negotiations. They were heading home as GK called them in to see if there is anything could be done to fix it. They respectfully agreed to try. He proposed his protections and restrictions. However our MC kept referencing to the bad list. GK looked at SWAPA. They moved a few numbers and said it was final. GK tried to make things work for both parties. Our MC felt that in a standstill with SWAPA and with GK's good efforts this would be the absolute best that could ever be negotiated at the table.

The last thing our MEC knew about the status of negotiations was that the MC walked out and was on the way home. The "emergency" meeting with GK was not communicated to MEC until after the fact due to timing and the nature of talks. The MC was cornered into agreeing to the proposal with no attorneys present, or MEC approval. (rest assured that will never be allowed again)

This started a disconnect between MC and MEC. Pilots never gave a bird to GK, in fact the opposite, we appreciate his effort to fix the list with protections.

It took MEC longer than SWAPA to vote, because while SL9 provided SWAPA with necessary adjustments to their CBA, the equivalent of SL9 still had to be drafted and approved by legal on our side, for our CBA along with other transitional documents that SWAPA didn't have to have to vote.

AirTran pilots were outraged with SWAPA's refusal to negotiate a fair list. The list is what this thing was about. The list you offered, not GK. He wasn't just helping us, he was helping you, because he knows you'll get crushed in arbitration. Now he can't say that he didn't try.

Don't tell me GK is mad at us... He knows the whole story, not just the propaganda SWAPA put out for you to cover up how THEY caused you to go to arbitration.

"According to our MC...."

Did your MC also tell you about a great deal on some ocean front property in...well you know?

If you believed your MC when they told you Gary was up late on a Friday night, trying to create protections from the list your MC negotiated, I might have a bridge to sell you as well.

 

[scoreboardII]

According to our MC, SWAPA would not budge on the list and our guys walked out of negotiations. They were heading home as GK called them in to see if there is anything could be done to fix it. They respectfully agreed to try. He proposed his protections and restrictions. However our MC kept referencing to the bad list. GK looked at SWAPA. They moved a few numbers and said it was final. GK tried to make things work for both parties. Our MC felt that in a standstill with SWAPA and with GK's good efforts this would be the absolute best that could ever be negotiated at the table.

The last thing our MEC knew about the status of negotiations was that the MC walked out and was on the way home. The "emergency" meeting with GK was not communicated to MEC until after the fact due to timing and the nature of talks. The MC was cornered into agreeing to the proposal with no attorneys present, or MEC approval. (rest assured that will never be allowed again)

This started a disconnect between MC and MEC. Pilots never gave a bird to GK, in fact the opposite, we appreciate his effort to fix the list with protections.

It took MEC longer than SWAPA to vote, because while SL9 provided SWAPA with necessary adjustments to their CBA, the equivalent of SL9 still had to be drafted and approved by legal on our side, for our CBA along with other transitional documents that SWAPA didn't have to have to vote.

AirTran pilots were outraged with SWAPA's refusal to negotiate a fair list. The list is what this thing was about. The list you offered, not GK. He wasn't just helping us, he was helping you, because he knows you'll get crushed in arbitration. Now he can't say that he didn't try.

Don't tell me GK is mad at us... He knows the whole story, not just the propaganda SWAPA put out for you to cover up how THEY caused you to go to arbitration.

Once again, proven a liar, nice work, you guys should try some honesty once in awhile. Good for the soul, like chicken soup.

 

[MILF Hunter]

All I've heard so far is, "Our MC didn't have clear instructions", "Our MC were trapped in negotiations", "Our MC lacked oversight", "Our MC negotiated things they were permitted to", "The attorney's couldn't be reached", blah, blah, blah.

What the heck did your MC think they were doing in Dallas. Can your MEC and MC not recognize a negotiation when its happening?

Like it or not, all parties came to an agreement that your MC supported and was prepared to present to your membership. Y'all couldn't stomach the deal, and had it killed. GK shouldn't be expected to see this any other way because this is exactly what happened.

To your trannies that wanted the chance to vote YES and see this deal passed, they should have spoken as loud as the ones that begged to MEC to kill the deal.

Your MC has four members, and your MEC eight, but clearly the decision to kill this deal was made by hundreds. Stop whining, stop making exuses and man up to the fact that y'all threw this back in GK's face.

You wanted it, now you got it! My guess is that you will not want what coms next!

 

[slaquer5]

Not sure what you're hearing about arbitration from SWAPA, but here's what Dana Eischen wrote. He was on the board of this decision at DAL/NWA. He will be our lead arbitrator.
'We have attempted, at all times, to recognize reasonable expectations of both parties while, in all instances, rejecting proposals that, however facially logical, resulted in untenable windfalls.'
'The resulting list neither realizes nor maintains each and every career expectations, nor could it do so. No recitation of career expectations ever includes a merger, and no merger can leave all hopes and plans unaffected. The most that can be said, and it can be said with some assurance in this case, is that the merger of these particular companies will result in a uniquely powerful entity, by virtue of the contributions of both carriers, that is capable of better withstanding the substantial challenges of the current environment than if the Companies had chose to go it alone.'

So since your part of the AT MEC or NC, why don't you atlest have the ballz to tell us your name, Rob Zerbe has. It is sad that ALPA could care less for the well-being of the AT pilots.

 

[Nindiri]

Just out of curiosity, how will SWA pilots react when this mess is all over?

Obviously, the likely outcome is arbitration. Both sides will complain, but in the end we will integrate and move on. How will SWA guys respond? Will we all shake hands and move on, or will some of these guys hold a serious grudge?