Airtran MEC voted no

[Nindiri]

In the end, I see the 717 being fenced at it's present payscale. SWAPA and SW won't be motivated to pay more at this point. That offer is gone. Gary wants low training cost so he will push for the fence, SWAPA will agree leading to lower 717 cost and the only new training would be newhires as you said.

RF

I see. A new B-scale for new-hires. This gets better all the time.

 

[zippy32]

This is all an exercise in futility. I don't think anyone is going to change anyone else's mind at this point. Having said that I guess I'll go ahead and throw my worthless 2 cents out there.

SWA guys argue that they are bringing the industry leading contract to this deal and that the AAI guys are reaping the benefits of the the SWA pilots labor, gaining a windfall in the form of huge pay raises and QOL scheduling improvements.

The AAI guys counter that it is NOT the SWAPA guys that are paying the checks, that it is GK and SWA the company who is paying. They continue that the AAI pilots are not taking anything from the SWAPA guys. Furthermore they contend they are bringing their own jets and ATL gates with them, therefore they aren't taking any Captain seats from the SWA guys. They are bringing their own seats with them.

Now here is where the logic fails, in my humble opinion. If the SWA pilots are NOT responsible for bringing the large contractual gains to the acquisition, then how is it that the AAI guys get credit for bringing the jets to the table? It seems like they are trying to have it both ways.

How is it that the SWAPA pilots deserve no ownership of their contract with their company, yet the AAI guys deserve ownership of captain seats because they are bringing their company brought over some jets? It needs to cut both ways.

 

[On Your Six]

Just a curious question. If pay rates were reduced for the 717, and then vacancies needed filled, how would they fill them? new hires forced to work the 717 instead of the 737? I hope you see my point. I'm old and don't have many years of flying left, but I would hate to see this squabble effect someone just getting into the industry unfairly.

You really are old. Newhire pay on future 717 spots will be higher at SWA compared to old AT rates, period. Even if rates are lowered a bit, they will still be better. Look Pops, why do you care about future newhire rates? You should be concerned about getting your current conflict under control via mediation or arbitration, and THEN go for better newhire rates, which will be better at SWA anyway. How old are you? You're still giving the French Army in WWII a bad name. Man up Pops!



OYS

 

[Sacha]

I thought the 71's were going to Delta, no wait, it was Finair, no Quantas connect, or Africa?

In the big picture, is it in SWAPA's best interest to pay less on an a/c with the same seating capacity of some a/c you already fly?

Who cares? We won't be flying them, you will. They won't be on the property long anyways. The arby can't tell us which aircraft to keep, who will be flying them or what said aircraft will pay. But hey, you guys were able to vote on that so this is old news to you. First there will a giant fence around ATL. Then there will be this giant sucking sound around the Airtran pilot parking lot.

 

[On Your Six]

In the end, I see the 717 being fenced at it's present payscale. SWAPA and SW won't be motivated to pay more at this point. That offer is gone. Gary wants low training cost so he will push for the fence, SWAPA will agree leading to lower 717 cost and the only new training would be newhires as you said.

RF

Oh that is crazy and a scare tactic. Still trying to use pay as a threat to get something unfairly. GK would be NUTS to fence current rates. That is LAME Red. The SLI will be settled, and there won't be a B-Scale, or training costs would skyrocket, people would be unhappy, and maybe most 717 pilots would be disgruntled, which might not allow them to "feel the LUV", and that could affect other things. GK doesn't want that. Just get ready for arbitration and go forward, without crazy threats that are unlikely.



OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Who cares? We won't be flying them, you will. They won't be on the property long anyways. The arby can't tell us which aircraft to keep, who will be flying them or what said aircraft will pay. But hey, you guys were able to vote on that so this is old news to you. First there will a giant fence around ATL. Then there will be this giant sucking sound around the Airtran pilot parking lot.

If SWAPA wants to kill the Golden Goose, let them. If SWA starts to crumble because SWA can't operate efficiently, then those great rates and benefits will go away, sending SWA back to where they initially were, a second rate LCC that people initially went to before going to the Majors. SWAPA will be smart enough not to kill the Goose, and will give in. They have to. Look at USAPA for an example of not agreeing with binding arbitration. That COULD be your future. That won't happen.

This was a great move by Airtran ALPA, it couldn't get worse paywise at
Airtran, so they rolled the dice and will win. Even if is an extra dollar an hour, although it will be a lot more, and they get better seniority to boot! I also like the "Arby's" reference. You guys are "Fudruckers."



OYS

 

[Sacha]

If SWAPA wants to kill the Golden Goose, let them. If SWA starts to crumble because SWA can't operate efficiently, then those great rates and benefits will go away, sending SWA back to where they initially were, a second rate LCC that people initially went to before going to the Majors. SWAPA will be smart enough not to kill the Goose, and will give in. They have to. Look at USAPA for an example of not agreeing with binding arbitration. That COULD be your future. That won't happen.

This was a great move by Airtran ALPA, it couldn't get worse paywise at
Airtran, so they rolled the dice and will win. Even if is an extra dollar an hour, although it will be a lot more, and they get better seniority to boot!


"At United, we don't want to kill the Golden Goose, we just want to choke it a little!"

I read that in the Wall Street Journal. This rocket scientist was OYS's former ALPA boss Rick Dubinsky if I am not mistaken. So they did. They choked and choked and out went thousands of pilot jobs including the all knowing soothsayer OYS. So here he is a new hire at Delta moving nowhere. At the
same time he is advising you Airtran guys to go for it all. Give SWA and it's pilots the middle finger and just choke the ever-living ******************** out of the "Golden Goose". Don't worry, it will work out. The Gubmint will take care of you! Just ask Burnsy. ALPA hardball has worked out so well for him......


Good luck with that

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

Who cares? We won't be flying them, you will. They won't be on the property long anyways.

Well there goes your threat of less pay for an extended period of time to "punish" the 717 drivers.

 

[Sacha]

Well there goes your threat of less pay for an extended period of time to "punish" the 717 drivers.

It won't be our fault. As many of you have pointed out: "Gary Kelly pays us, not the Southwest pilots".

Please reread my above response to OYS. If you don't remember how that went down, check the ALPA archives. It might be instructional as you move forward towards some very thin ice. Or just ask OYS. He can be relied upon for whopper of a tale.

 

[Flycatcher99]

Your friends are hardly a scientific sample. By contrast, our representatives were keeping spreadsheets with the names of all of their constituents and how those pilots asked that the MEC vote. In the case of the MKE and MCO domiciles, since they are so small, those reps actually took the time to call every single one of their pilots to ask them personally how they wanted them to vote. It was quite easy for them to figure out the will of the majority. From what I hear, the tally that each rep came up with was overwhelmingly in favor of voting it down at the MEC level and not wasting time with a pilot group vote. But hey, I'm sure your "friends" are the pulse of the membership instead.

If it's true that a majority of the AAI guys wanted the MEC to vote this down, then we have a smaller group of pilots to sympathize with if this thing goes unfortunately for you all. There are many ways that the AT group can pay for this vote.

I don't see it as unreasonable at all for the 717's to get fenced off at your current pay. I find it laughable that you all are crying "B-scale!", after that's exactly what your MEC tried to enact for 175 of your FO's, with two more years longevity than SWA FO's. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. And that's just one prospect you face.

You don't think it will happen? Fine, think what you want. All I know is that the word here is that both Gary and Herb were on a conference call over these events, and they both had to be unscrewed from the ceiling. I wouldn't be feeling very cocky if I was the average gum-chewing AT pilot right now.