AirTran MEC at SWAPA

[S3sundowner]

Dicko, how does he sound like an angry man? I think he sounds just a little peeved that there are some on here hellbent on putting themselves first. Sixlegs no doubt sees himself as one of the pilots who helped to make swa what it is today. He hasn't always had excellent retirement benefits and industy leading pay. He worked his tail off for considerably less than industry leading pay and benefits so that guys like you can offered the chance you are being presented with today. And to turn around and call him an "angry man" smacks of a lot of things, none of which he wants to see at his airline. You guys are on cloud nine, the swa guys are anxious but optimistic for good reason. You know what a good deal you're getting, but no, you want to shoot for the stars. I think swa will make you guys a very fair offer, and the majority of your group will see that and vote accordingly. Unfortunately, people like you will become part of the 3 or 4 percenters and forever bitch at your good fortune, made possible by the likes of sixlegs. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it (ie arbitration).

 

[Ty Webb]

Sixlegs came on here saying that he thought every AirTran Captain seat should be forfeited, and then complained that everyone else was unreasonable. :laugh:

He got exactly what he deserved. We actually went easier on him than he deserved.

 

[roughneck]

He got exactly what he deserved.

You gave him your seat?

 

[S3sundowner]

Well Ty, in the one post that I read, he didn't say that. Anyway, it's much healthier to sit on here and discuss the merits/benefits, etc. that pilots from both companies are going to realise than to sling mud. It's easy to get fired up, but then your expectations, from each individual's point of view, have to be realistic. You can hope that aai captains keep their seats, and they might, but is that realistic? Is that going to create healthy work environments post-acquisition? I think not. Maybe you don't care, but you should. You guys will be fenced for a couple of years I'm sure, and that in itself is going to be a huge financial gain for each pilot on your property. But, as you say Ty and then renege, you should let the guys on the ncs figure it out.

 

[dicko]

Dicko, how does he sound like an angry man? I think he sounds just a little peeved that there are some on here hellbent on putting themselves first. Sixlegs no doubt sees himself as one of the pilots who helped to make swa what it is today. He hasn't always had excellent retirement benefits and industy leading pay. He worked his tail off for considerably less than industry leading pay and benefits so that guys like you can offered the chance you are being presented with today. And to turn around and call him an "angry man" smacks of a lot of things, none of which he wants to see at his airline. You guys are on cloud nine, the swa guys are anxious but optimistic for good reason. You know what a good deal you're getting, but no, you want to shoot for the stars. I think swa will make you guys a very fair offer, and the majority of your group will see that and vote accordingly. Unfortunately, people like you will become part of the 3 or 4 percenters and forever bitch at your good fortune, made possible by the likes of sixlegs. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it (ie arbitration).

Are you 'channeling' Six Legs or are you representing him officially ? You've made your point. Badly, but you've made it never the less. Over and over again ....

If you are a JBLU guy who was turned down by SWA I'm sorry. However, this isn't the way to get another shot. Frankly it's a little creepy. Ironically it seems you would have been happier at AirTran.

I'm not bitching about anything. Nor have I. I'm going to accept what the MC's or Arbitrators agree to and look to the future. Why don't you concentrate on yours.

Cheers.

 

[S3sundowner]

Dicko, I think that people should be entitled to their opinions. I also think that if you post your opinions on here, others are free to react to said opinion. But both can be done in a tactful, unoffensive manner. I find that people are generally respectful to one's face, yet maybe not so much when they are hiding behind a keyboard. I've been guilty of that myself. To answer your question, no, I was not turned down by swa and I am sorry that you find my posts a "little creepy". However I understand. Maybe you were turned down by swa for good reason, and are now getting your "dream shot". Like I said to you before, some things are not always as they seem. And my point, I don't believe was made "badly". I'm glad to hear that you will accept the sli and move on. But, like I said, I believe swapa will make you guys a very fair offer, and arbitration may not be so kind. Again, I think the majority of your membership will recognise the "gift horse" and chose not to look it in the mouth.

 

[doh]

Dicko, how does he sound like an angry man? I think he sounds just a little peeved that there are some on here hellbent on putting themselves first. Sixlegs no doubt sees himself as one of the pilots who helped to make swa what it is today. He hasn't always had excellent retirement benefits and industy leading pay. He worked his tail off for considerably less than industry leading pay and benefits so that guys like you can offered the chance you are being presented with today. And to turn around and call him an "angry man" smacks of a lot of things, none of which he wants to see at his airline. You guys are on cloud nine, the swa guys are anxious but optimistic for good reason. You know what a good deal you're getting, but no, you want to shoot for the stars. I think swa will make you guys a very fair offer, and the majority of your group will see that and vote accordingly. Unfortunately, people like you will become part of the 3 or 4 percenters and forever bitch at your good fortune, made possible by the likes of sixlegs. Be careful what you wish for, you might get it (ie
arbitration).

On another thread, there is someone from SWA arguing that AT should not get credit for subsidizing growth with lower wages and benefits. So can we agree that SWA pilots did that as well? Just a few years earlier, but nonetheless, AT should not be denigrated for doing the same thing. Maybe that should be one of the AT arguments if this goes to arbitration.

 

[ASADFW7]

There isn't an argument on flightinfo that is relevant. This is like listening to a bunch of golfers talk up their game and making bets before they approach the tee shot. Once the real ball is in play we can see how all this fluff matches up. Till then, there are a lot of little minds making big statements.

The SWA guys are getting a good laugh at a story of the representational voices of flightinfo for AT. We know we have wingnuts on our side, they speak out of their butt all the time, that is what we have pprune for. Coming on here is such a contrast to the public interaction with AT crews it is laughable. The same thing for the SWA voices, out of 5900 pilots we have less than 20 idiots who are consistently making their backside shown as well. Statistically all the idiots of these arguments have no voice at any official table.

If you are an actual idiot, I congratulate you for the sport of debate you are participating in here. It makes for good entertainment.

 

[stalker]

Golf Clap!!!!

 

[dicko]

Dicko, I think that people should be entitled to their opinions. I also think that if you post your opinions on here, others are free to react to said opinion. But both can be done in a tactful, unoffensive manner. I find that people are generally respectful to one's face, yet maybe not so much when they are hiding behind a keyboard. I've been guilty of that myself. To answer your question, no, I was not turned down by swa and I am sorry that you find my posts a "little creepy". However I understand. Maybe you were turned down by swa for good reason, and are now getting your "dream shot". Like I said to you before, some things are not always as they seem. And my point, I don't believe was made "badly". I'm glad to hear that you will accept the sli and move on. But, like I said, I believe swapa will make you guys a very fair offer, and arbitration may not be so kind. Again, I think the majority of your membership will recognise the "gift horse" and chose not to look it in the mouth.

Downer,

I think your posts are neither respectful or unoffensive. It reminds me a little of Colonel Hans in the movie Inglorious Bastards. Without the pipe or the humor....

Regarding SWA. As I said before, I never applied. Do you actually work for JBLU or are you hiding ? In the pool perhaps or actually working for SWA ? Is that what spurred your 'concern' ?

Take care,

 

[Ty Webb]

Well Ty, in the one post that I read, he didn't say that.

Well, here's one of them: http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=2089436&postcount=33

I'll save you the effort:

"I see them integrated, after the big picture with work rules, pay, health insurance, scope, management relations, etc.... near the bottom of the SWA list..... with no AT captain's seats held . . . ".

Now, to address your equally assinine assertion:

You can hope that aai captains keep their seats, and they might, but is that realistic? Is that going to create healthy work environments post-acquisition? I think not.

So, let me get this right- if you don't get to steal the seat I've been in for the past 6 years, you're going to pitch a fit and hold your breath, huh?

I've got news for you, pal: you're going to be just as disappointed as Sixlegs. :laugh:

 

[roughneck]

Ty may lose his seat even if he doesn't admit it here on FI. He has been talking about it on the AirTran forum from what I hear.

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty may lose his seat even if he doesn't admit it here on FI. He has been talking about it on the AirTran forum from what I hear.

Then you don't know Ty. :laugh:

Actually, no one is talking about SLI issues on our internal board. Most of the chatter has been about implementation of the new contract, and a pending election.

 

[SWA/FO]

6 year Capt. huh. What you hired in 2004? You know you will make more in the right seat of a LUV jet so why you worried? Its win-win, unless your MEC screws the pooch!

 

[Dash Power]

Its win-win, unless your MEC screws the pooch!

Integrating these two seniority lists are not the only options. I just hope the majority of the AT guys are more reasonable than Ty and his pals on this forum. If not, they may be ruining a slam dunk increase in quality of life for unreasonable expectations.

Arbitration may be what is thought to be an asset, but am I the only one that thinks it could be more of a liability?

 

[S3sundowner]

Ty, I don't see that my comment is assinine, as you say. I asked a question. Is it realistic for ALL aai captains to keep their seats? Like I said, it might happen, but I seriously doubt it. Pitch a fit and hold my breath? OK. But you don't need to be so condescending Ty; I don't think that I was. Like I said, it's easy to hide behind a keyboard and spout off. I hope that GK knows what he is doing here, because if you and others on here are any indication of the types of pilots that swa is bringing on, then GK has just made one big mistake and swa will now be just another flying job. I talk to my buds at swa who know aai guys and they tell me that they are just glad to be coming over. One friend at swa knows SIX aai captains, and they are all just glad that this is happening. ALL of them are expecting to be flying reserve out of Oakland; I take it none of them post on here.

 

[zman]

S3sundowner while most Airtran pilots will agree with you about being excited to work for a company with more friendly labor relations. Most will disagree with you about losing their seats or current seat relative seat position. I think whatever happens unfortunately Southwest Airlines will not be same. I have jumpseated many times on different airlines that have been through mergers and it changes both groups. I know many Southwest airline pilots will talk about pay, but that isnt the whole piece of the pie. Like I have said in previous posts, for some its about base, days off, being able to bid holidays off, etc. Whatever happens I believe that this isnt going to be the same Southwest that most of you know. You cannot piss off a large number pilots and expect them to be ok with it and that goes for BOTH sides. Thats simply why Southwest airlines will not be same. As for how will the list will work out in the end, who knows. Both sides can put both their opinions on this forum and back it up in their eyes. I just hope that it will not tear this new airline apart.

 

[Cometman]

S3sundowner while most Airtran pilots will agree with you about being excited to work for a company with more friendly labor relations. Most will disagree with you about losing their seats or current seat relative seat position. I think whatever happens unfortunately Southwest Airlines will not be same. I have jumpseated many times on different airlines that have been through mergers and it changes both groups. I know many Southwest airline pilots will talk about pay, but that isnt the whole piece of the pie. Like I have said in previous posts, for some its about base, days off, being able to bid holidays off, etc. Whatever happens I believe that this isnt going to be the same Southwest that most of you know. You cannot piss off a large number pilots and expect them to be ok with it and that goes for BOTH sides. Thats simply why Southwest airlines will not be same. As for how will the list will work out in the end, who knows. Both sides can put both their opinions on this forum and back it up in their eyes. I just hope that it will not tear this new airline apart.

You are correct. SWA will never be the same. It is a shame that a small airline with 1700 pilots will ruin a large airline with 6000 pilots. Hopefully the 6000 will be the happy ones and the 1700 will be happy to be there. They should get what they deserve and that isn't much.

 

[zman]

You are correct. SWA will never be the same. It is a shame that a small airline with 1700 pilots will ruin a large airline with 6000 pilots. Hopefully the 6000 will be the happy ones and the 1700 will be happy to be there. They should get what they deserve and that isn't much.

See comet and thats exactly what I am talking about this is why Southwest airlines will change. Different attitudes on both sides sharing the same cockpits is going to really suck working at this new airline for a long time to come.

 

[S3sundowner]

Zman, I hereby propose a permanent fence around atl. New swapa cba to include "wholly owned subsidiary". Growth metrics apply to both sides. That way GK can operate his "alter ego" airline out of atl connecting with swa, set up to run like domestic codeshare. You guys keep your pay and base, then everyone will be happy.