AirTran management pilots

[Crash Pad]

No, 86 percent didn't "like" it. They simply preferred it to unemployment, which was the implied threat. One of our Merger Committee members famously said "vote yes if you want a job at Southwest, vote no if you don't." Not exactly a real choice, if you believe his premise.

When this thing started I never worried about SWAPA. SWAPA has never screwed me... I was terrified of ALPA. They never fail to screw up a pay raise. To this day SWAPA or SWA offered:
Pay raise
Base
Capt. Seats

ALPA turned that down because they wanted more. Bravo.

 

[freightdogfred]

We are one team now.

funny stuff

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA turned that down because they wanted more. Bravo.

The MEC turned it down because it wasn't a fair integration. Plain and simple.

 

[waveflyer]

The MEC turned it down because it wasn't a fair integration. Plain and simple.

Seriously?
How long are you going to beat that drum PCL?

 

[PCL_128]

Seriously?
How long are you going to beat that drum PCL?

As long as people continue to beat the "they did it because they had ulterior motives" drum. I don't like it when people are wrongly accused of corruption. It ain't right.

 

[waveflyer]

Yeah, your motives were pure as the driven snow PCL-
I'm sure your dreams of an alpa career going away made you a completely objective officer
You and The rest of the alpa were as transparent as my living room window

 

[PCL_128]

This isn't about me, wave. I didn't have a vote. This is about the Status Reps who these guys continue to attack by claiming that they had ulterior motives and weren't basing their decisions on the fairness of the list. That's just BS.

 

[Dan Roman]

As long as people continue to beat the "they did it because they had ulterior motives" drum. I don't like it when people are wrongly accused of corruption. It ain't right.

Well PCL and I went around on another thread but I have to defend him here. Clearly, all the AT guys did was simply try and do the best they could for their pilots based on the info they had at the time. 20/20 hindsight is fine, but keep it in perspective. If it isn't a "merger to be proud of" it's not the fault of the AT pilot's that simply tried to see that they were treated fairly.

 

[waveflyer]

Let's not rehash it- but please Dan -
Every move they made was predicted by me when the purchase was announced. Look it up. Transparent poisoning the well and dragging out the process to keep dues $coin flowing in as long as possible.
It wasn't remotely surprising that SWA reacted to their behavior as they did. Research that as well. Every SWA pilot told them not to go that fearful, untrusting, selfish route, don't fight for every last inch- they dismissed it as threats.
What AT and their alpa defenders and fighters call unfair, we call the natural result of acting really dumb-
Really stupid to think you'd get relative seniority when you got bought by a company more than 20 years older than yours. Really dumb. No other word. And then to get on here months later, rehash anything, and then call it unfair and throw out 32% seniority losses as if that number is not complete BS considering the age of the carriers....? it just lacks perspective of what the SWA career is and how good we have it.
Btw- it's been said, but the vast majority of junior SWA pilots think the SLI was very unfair- we got nothing out of the deal, but had a vast majority of AT pilots placed above us. We aren't bit<hing about though for two reasons---1) it over and a new year and this is really dumb- and 2) we trust mgmt when they say it'll work out.
We're working on hope though.

 

[freightdogfred]

If you think it was was about draggin out dues for ALPA you are truely misguided.
All Airtran pilots want the transition to go as quickly as possible, before and after SLI.
The timeline for transition is controlled by Dallas, not the ALPA MEC
What part of this do you not understand?

 

[PCL_128]

He doesn't get it. He had his preconceived notions before this entire thing started, and he's twisted events to fit those preconceived notions and then championed himself as clairvoyant. In reality, the idea that any of the voting reps would kill a deal to keep dues coming in is ridiculous. There isn't even anyone in the leadership that is a true ALPA die-hard. Hell, one of the reps who voted against the deal was handing out IBT cards when the union representation debate was going on a few years ago! Wave has it in his head that these are a bunch of ALPA guys that are trying to protect revenue, and he doesn't get that none of them care about ALPA.

 

[Dan Roman]

Really Wave, you are smarter than that. You don't really think ALPA tried to squeeze a few more extra months of dues at the expense of trying to support the best possible merger for it's membership? You don't really think that ALPA national has that much control over what any member airline wants to do what it thinks is in it's best interest?
Finally, do you really think AT ALPA should have heeded the words of SWAPA, given it's track record in airline aquisistions/mergers and rep for aggresive self protection vs just treating it as a business negotiation and trying to get the best deal they thought they could get?
Come on dude, you sound like Fox news.

 

[waveflyer]

Fair enough- you alone are responsible for your actions no matter what advice alpa paid lawyers give-
And you are responsible for your attitude now

Are you guys going to be claiming the ever-subjective "unfair" until you retire?

Bc after this post I'll be back to being over whatever opinions I had about the AT SLI- you guys are SWA now and no matter who makes fun- you are family now- which still means you won't get everything

 

[Britpilot]

This isn't about me, wave. I didn't have a vote. This is about the Status Reps who these guys continue to attack by claiming that they had ulterior motives and weren't basing their decisions on the fairness of the list. That's just BS.

No, it's not BS and you know it.
They should have let the pilots decide, that would have been "fair" would it not?
Oh that's right, we were not capable of making a decision on our future according to you.

 

[freightdogfred]

To be family, ya got to be treated like family. So far, it ain't happened.

I've yet to see a WN pilot wearing a one luv lanyard. It is what it is.

 

[tankerhead]

So does Gary really sign all those Xmas cards or is his sig printed with the card?

 

[redflyer65]

Wave is exactly right on one point. Many of us on here tried to give friendly advice to not push the GO hard and go for the throat. It was completely shouted down as idle threats. For those on the SW side, we know personally how slippery that slope is. Unfortunately AAI found out. There is no gloating in the way it went down, and it's sad that the MEC didnt let their membership vote....either up or down.

Water under the bridge at this point and it's time to start working together. Years of anger isn't going to serve anyone well at this point...or 10 years from now.

 

[jball2]

Fred, just because we don't wear a One Luv lanyard doesn't mean we don't consider you family. I don't wear my SWAPA lanyard either but I support them. Attitude is a choice so choose wisely. With all sincerity, I welcome you to the family.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

 

[Lear70]

I've yet to see a WN pilot wearing a one luv lanyard. It is what it is.

I did, on my commute down to MCO last week, Captain had one on, I even commented on it.

On a side note, this thread has been very useful for one thing: Southwest pilots are finally getting a feel of what I've been trying to say for the last few months. AirTran pilots are going to be upset for a while and it's going to take time for that resentment to lessen. It's on our internal message boards, it's in the crew rooms, it's on the line, and it's finally beginning to show through in several of the posts on this thread from several different people.

Southwest Management built the expectation that we could go to Arbitration by signing the Process Agreement, specifically Paragraph 6.A - "...the resultant arbitrated list WILL be implemented and the lists merged." (paraphrased)

You can't build expectations regarding someone's entire career then tear them down and expect people to be OK with that. Regardless of the legality of the move, it will breed anger and resentment when you tell people you can go to arbitration then say, "Oh we decided we're not going to do that."

Whether you, as a Southwest pilot agree with that is irrelevant.

It doesn't matter what YOU think AIRTRAN pilots should feel. Just as we AirTran pilots have NO RIGHT tell a Southwest pilot what to think. You can't tell someone else what they should feel, think, or believe.

The simple facts are that the Merger Committee is telling people to stay positive and move forward. The Negotiating Committee is telling people to stay positive and move forward. The MEC is telling people to stay positive and move forward. However, the line pilot is still mad about it. Yes, some people are mad at the MEC. No one is mad at individual Southwest pilots, so don't take it personally. But just about EVERY AirTran pilot is mad at the way the whole process worked out and it's disingenuous to lay all the blame at the feet of ALPA.

We all just have to remember that none of us individually are responsible for how things played out. At the end of the day, we're just pilots, and treating each other with respect and professionalism needs to be our focus as we move forward. I try to be friendly and respectful to every Southwest employee I meet, even the not-so-friendly ones, and I appreciate when they do the same (and many of them are friendly and welcoming).

Attitude is everything. I choose to be positive and do my job 100% with a smile on my face. It's all I can do... the only thing I can control is me. Ya'll fly safe... :beer:

 

[mokitty]

Lear,

I get your post. However, AirTran pilots do not have a monopoly on being pissed or mad about this deal. Plenty of those feelings on our boards and on the line too (can't speak about the Lounges as I spend as little time in them as possible ). Especially those with Juniority. It will take time for this to work its way out of both groups. But we do need to move forward together if this is going to be successful long term.

I too continue to work with a smile and have a good attitude. Doesn't mean I like the SLI. However, I will not have hostility towards AirTran employees. Welcome.