AirTran joins ALPA

[SEVEN]

The Southwest Pilots Association would get the sh*t kicked out of them by a NWA style management group.

I agree. Swa management doesn't hate its pilot group like NW managment. My point being that, just because Airtran now is ALPA doesn't mean it's clear skies ahead. ALPA national has never protected it's pilots from other ALPA carriers. We fight till the bloody end. Airtran's new fight is around the corner with DAL. Every paid off NW DC9 will be placed stratigically on the Airtran routes. The goal is to slowly bleed them out.

 

[SEVEN]

Clueless.

I'm clueless? You need to look at both the negative and positive aspects of having ALPA around. I think we can do much better but unfortunately have to put up with the "union crap" at the 121 airlines. There are those that are clear thinking individuals and other who I like to call "Union Nazis." They take it way too far. They have divided this industry and management almost beyond repair. That's what I call clueless. Unions do more harm then good.

 

[easydoesit]

Hey Seven. Is your first name Alex?

 

[PCL_128]

Airtran's new fight is around the corner with DAL. Every paid off NW DC9 will be placed stratigically on the Airtran routes. The goal is to slowly bleed them out.

Companies compete, pilot groups don't. Delta has been competing with AirTran for 16 years. That has nothing to do with ALPA. We'll be working with the DAL MEC from here on out, and our managements can worry about competing with each other.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm clueless? You need to look at both the negative and positive aspects of having ALPA around. I think we can do much better but unfortunately have to put up with the "union crap" at the 121 airlines. There are those that are clear thinking individuals and other who I like to call "Union Nazis." They take it way too far. They have divided this industry and management almost beyond repair. That's what I call clueless. Unions do more harm then good.

You're even more clueless than I originally thought.

 

[Nevets]

At least now they can get a nice magazine with pictures of overweight guys with mustaches at meetings.

Unions do more harm then good.

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

 

[nwaredtail]

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

I would hope that almost 100 years of flying has brought about change, pilots brought the changes. ALPA is exactly what they call themselves, an association. (whether thats good or bad, thats for each pilot to decide.

 

[SEVEN]

I would hope that almost 100 years of flying has brought about change, pilots brought the changes. ALPA is exactly what they call themselves, an association. (whether thats good or bad, thats for each pilot to decide.

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

 

[SEVEN]

You're even more clueless than I originally thought.

Right back at ya slick.

 

[WayBack]

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

Yes, ALPA is responsible for everything good in the airline industry. They're never responsible for all the paycuts, it's always managements fault.


PFT_128, you've already got the ALPA Chair gut....how's that mustache comming in?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

Interesting that you say that given the current state of "capitalism" in our country.

The reason why unions are "bad", is because there is a cultural fear campaign that scares the hell out of workers that unions will bankrupt the company and make things worse....

Well, when you've got millions of workers with credit card debt of $8K+, many upside down on SUV and house loans, they certainly don't want to rock the boat... they will dutifully take the scraps that management allows to fall off the table....

Even more so, one could argue the above, if management was good at what they do.... But airline management never could demonstrate that they could be trusted with the company cookie jar. In addition, Wall Street has demonstrated the same...

What unionism is about, is the access to govt and the process. Management despises unions because that means they have to share the discussion and action at the table of change. Unions forces management to to change their ways.

There are those workers out there, the management apologist, that will happily take what ever management is willing to give. It is certainly easier to be someone else's fool.

 

[DoinTime]

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

After comments like that you are not a "semi anti union guy" you are are a "full on union hater guy". Why don't you just go corporate if you enjoy the non-union environment so much? Oh, thats right....you enjoy the work rules your Union negotiated and the job security that a strict seniority list brings.

 

[SEVEN]

After comments like that you are not a "semi anti union guy" you are are a "full on union hater guy". Why don't you just go corporate if you enjoy the non-union environment so much? Oh, thats right....you enjoy the work rules your Union negotiated and the job security that a strict seniority list brings.

Yeah right, that "strict seniority" list got me laid off for a year. How dare you suggest that a seniority list brings job security. There is some form of security until you are displaced or furloughed. While a senior pilot is in rehab or anger management classes when they should have been fired at any normal job. A jobless whale captain has to start at the bottom even though he is qualified for a left seat. My friend, take a closer look at the history of unions in the airline field. Either way you slice it, in the end, it's bad for everyone. You can sugar coat it all you want, but I propose that an industry run without dishonest union leadership would mean more jobs for us all. Unfortunately, I think we're too far down the road to turn back. Until then, thousands of ALPA pilots will continue to be laid off. Job security? I think not.

 

[PCL_128]

Seniority ensures that furloughs (not "layoffs," by the way) are done in a fair manner instead of management being able to furlough the guys that don't kiss their ass the most on a day to day basis. Without seniority protections, management would just furlough the guys that write up broken airplanes and call in fatigued when they aren't safe to fly because of dangerous scheduling practices. Thank your lucky stars that unions have implemented a seniority system instead of the draconian alternative.

 

[pilotyip]

Yeah right, that "strict seniority" list got me laid off for a year. How dare you suggest that a seniority list brings job security. There is some form of security until you are displaced or furloughed. While a senior pilot is in rehab or anger management classes when they should have been fired at any normal job. A jobless whale captain has to start at the bottom even though he is qualified for a left seat. My friend, take a closer look at the history of unions in the airline field. Either way you slice it, in the end, it's bad for everyone. You can sugar coat it all you want, but I propose that an industry run without dishonest union leadership would mean more jobs for us all. Unfortunately, I think we're too far down the road to turn back. Until then, thousands of ALPA pilots will continue to be laid off. Job security? I think not.

Hey give it up if you are not 100% pro union, and 100% anti-management, you must be 100% anti-union and 100% pro management. There is no middle ground with many of the union fanatics. Funny how that changes after you go through a couple of union airliner and still loose your job. BTW is it really fair when your lay-off is the result of another ALPA carrier putting your airline out of business?