AirTran joins ALPA

[Nevets]

At least now they can get a nice magazine with pictures of overweight guys with mustaches at meetings.

Unions do more harm then good.

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

 

[nwaredtail]

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

I would hope that almost 100 years of flying has brought about change, pilots brought the changes. ALPA is exactly what they call themselves, an association. (whether thats good or bad, thats for each pilot to decide.

 

[SEVEN]

I would hope that almost 100 years of flying has brought about change, pilots brought the changes. ALPA is exactly what they call themselves, an association. (whether thats good or bad, thats for each pilot to decide.

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

 

[SEVEN]

You're even more clueless than I originally thought.

Right back at ya slick.

 

[WayBack]

Do you know of all the safety enhancement ALPA has brought to the industry?

Yes, ALPA is responsible for everything good in the airline industry. They're never responsible for all the paycuts, it's always managements fault.


PFT_128, you've already got the ALPA Chair gut....how's that mustache comming in?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

Interesting that you say that given the current state of "capitalism" in our country.

The reason why unions are "bad", is because there is a cultural fear campaign that scares the hell out of workers that unions will bankrupt the company and make things worse....

Well, when you've got millions of workers with credit card debt of $8K+, many upside down on SUV and house loans, they certainly don't want to rock the boat... they will dutifully take the scraps that management allows to fall off the table....

Even more so, one could argue the above, if management was good at what they do.... But airline management never could demonstrate that they could be trusted with the company cookie jar. In addition, Wall Street has demonstrated the same...

What unionism is about, is the access to govt and the process. Management despises unions because that means they have to share the discussion and action at the table of change. Unions forces management to to change their ways.

There are those workers out there, the management apologist, that will happily take what ever management is willing to give. It is certainly easier to be someone else's fool.

 

[DoinTime]

My point exactly. I happen to be a "semi anti union guy." I can see both sides of the issue. I just tend to agree with the non-union stance. In my opinion, it destroys the foundation that capitalism was built on. It discourages hard work and rewards those who should be fired. Unions are bad for individuals and bad for our Great Country.

After comments like that you are not a "semi anti union guy" you are are a "full on union hater guy". Why don't you just go corporate if you enjoy the non-union environment so much? Oh, thats right....you enjoy the work rules your Union negotiated and the job security that a strict seniority list brings.

 

[SEVEN]

After comments like that you are not a "semi anti union guy" you are are a "full on union hater guy". Why don't you just go corporate if you enjoy the non-union environment so much? Oh, thats right....you enjoy the work rules your Union negotiated and the job security that a strict seniority list brings.

Yeah right, that "strict seniority" list got me laid off for a year. How dare you suggest that a seniority list brings job security. There is some form of security until you are displaced or furloughed. While a senior pilot is in rehab or anger management classes when they should have been fired at any normal job. A jobless whale captain has to start at the bottom even though he is qualified for a left seat. My friend, take a closer look at the history of unions in the airline field. Either way you slice it, in the end, it's bad for everyone. You can sugar coat it all you want, but I propose that an industry run without dishonest union leadership would mean more jobs for us all. Unfortunately, I think we're too far down the road to turn back. Until then, thousands of ALPA pilots will continue to be laid off. Job security? I think not.

 

[PCL_128]

Seniority ensures that furloughs (not "layoffs," by the way) are done in a fair manner instead of management being able to furlough the guys that don't kiss their ass the most on a day to day basis. Without seniority protections, management would just furlough the guys that write up broken airplanes and call in fatigued when they aren't safe to fly because of dangerous scheduling practices. Thank your lucky stars that unions have implemented a seniority system instead of the draconian alternative.

 

[pilotyip]

Yeah right, that "strict seniority" list got me laid off for a year. How dare you suggest that a seniority list brings job security. There is some form of security until you are displaced or furloughed. While a senior pilot is in rehab or anger management classes when they should have been fired at any normal job. A jobless whale captain has to start at the bottom even though he is qualified for a left seat. My friend, take a closer look at the history of unions in the airline field. Either way you slice it, in the end, it's bad for everyone. You can sugar coat it all you want, but I propose that an industry run without dishonest union leadership would mean more jobs for us all. Unfortunately, I think we're too far down the road to turn back. Until then, thousands of ALPA pilots will continue to be laid off. Job security? I think not.

Hey give it up if you are not 100% pro union, and 100% anti-management, you must be 100% anti-union and 100% pro management. There is no middle ground with many of the union fanatics. Funny how that changes after you go through a couple of union airliner and still loose your job. BTW is it really fair when your lay-off is the result of another ALPA carrier putting your airline out of business?

 

[WayBack]

How many ALPA carriers have taken pay cuts in the last 10 yrs? All of them.
Out of all those carriers, how many of their CEO's, CFO's and various management taken a multi million dollar bonus in the weeks following that pay cut? All of them.
That is the spineless "Union" you guys voted in.
By the way, how many former Eastern, CAL scabs are at Airtran these days?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How many ALPA carriers have taken pay cuts in the last 10 yrs? All of them.
Out of all those carriers, how many of their CEO's, CFO's and various management taken a multi million dollar bonus in the weeks following that pay cut? All of them.
That is the spineless "Union" you guys voted in.
By the way, how many former Eastern, CAL scabs are at Airtran these days?

Considering the merger vote numbers at Airtran, what are you proposing?

 

[TWA Dude]

How many ALPA carriers have taken pay cuts in the last 10 yrs? All of them.

Any you think any other union would've prevented that? I mean, really? An airline that goes through Chap 11 will see concessions from its unions. Period. And don't forget AA with its mighty former ALPA group gave up 30% of their salary in 2003. If they hadn't it would've happened in Chap 11 anyways.

 

[Midge]

Hey give it up if you are not 100% pro union, and 100% anti-management, you must be 100% anti-union and 100% pro management. There is no middle ground with many of the union fanatics. Funny how that changes after you go through a couple of union airliner and still loose your job. BTW is it really fair when your lay-off is the result of another ALPA carrier putting your airline out of business?

You see, this is what a GED education gets you. You should probably stick to serving fries.
Clueless!

 

[pilotyip]

For me?

You see, this is what a GED education gets you. You should probably stick to serving fries.
Clueless!

Was I supposed to have a GED? Never got one of those.

 

[Midge]

Was I supposed to have a GED? Never got one of those.

Then you're even less educated than I gave you credit for, but you still are clueless.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm pretty sure that he has a few college degrees, even though his horrible grammar and spelling doesn't indicate so.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I'm pretty sure that he has a few college degrees, even though his horrible grammar and spelling doesn't indicate so.

One would think with your "industry education" you'd realize you're an ASSOCIATION MEMBER...not a Union member

The Airtran Pilots will figure out in short order that they still have the same pool of pilots to choose from that they did under the NPA. They bought the ALPA sales pitch, hook, line , and sinker...any delusional ideas of "fair" pay or contracts are just that...delusional.

 

[pdub20s]

How about a public service announcement from instructordude??

 

[DGdaPilot]

How many ALPA carriers have taken pay cuts in the last 10 yrs? All of them.

Uh, not quite. Eagle has had pay raises every year for at least the past 12 years.