Airtran Hiring news?

[maxblast72]

Since no one seems to want to answer your question, I will take a shot. Right now it looks like a lot of 717 guys are bidding into the 48 737 vacancies for the MKE base. Best guess would be a majority of new hires would be on the 717.

The current vacancy notice has 20 ATL 737 FO vacancies of which only 1 is taken on the mock bid. It apprears 19 ATL 737 FO vacancies will go to recalls/poolies. The company also stated they had a right to do a secondary bid to backfill positions that open due to this bid. Under that logic, it appears there would be some future 717 FO vacancies to backfill the 717 FOs heading to 737 MKE FO, 717 ATL CA, and 737 ATL CA.

 

[Secret Squirrel]

It apparently was NEVER open for new applications. It was open for a brief time for for poolies to update information online. A couple applications made it in but they will be discarded. The official hiring window has NOT been opened.

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

So what are you saying, Airtran has good management since Airtran has tripled in size over the last 10 years while airlines like ATA, Indepedence, Skybus, National, and the real Midwest have gone out of business due to bad management.

We're an anomoly, we're successful inspite of ourselves. Often we're snatching defeat from the jaws of victory (both the Company and the Union).

 

[XRMEFLYER]

So what are you saying, Airtran has good management since Airtran has tripled in size over the last 10 years while airlines like ATA, Indepedence, Skybus, National, and the real Midwest have gone out of business due to bad management.

"Best Management Team in the industry" Just ask them, they'll tell you. Also watch how they enrich themselves after the 4th quarter's results are released. Clearly our record year will have been a result of their heroic efforts and they will not hesitate to pay themselves handsomely for their great work.

STRIKE VOTE NOW!

 

[maxblast72]

"Best Management Team in the industry" Just ask them, they'll tell you. Also watch how they enrich themselves after the 4th quarter's results are released. Clearly our record year will have been a result of their heroic efforts and they will not hesitate to pay themselves handsomely for their great work.

STRIKE VOTE NOW!

Isn't higher management bonuses for Airtran's 2009 record financial performance a good thing for the pilots at the negotiating table? Kind of hard for the company to convince the mediator that Airtran can only afford a cost neutral contract when handing out big bonuses. Sooner or later you would think the mediator would tell the company to bring a serious cost increasing offer to the table or he is going to grant the Airtran pilots the release they are seeking.

Also, lets hope management's 2009 bonus includes a large chunk of AAI stock that vests in the future. That gives management more incentive not to see this place tank.

 

[Whine Lover]

Please keep in mind that the pilot wages at both DHL and ATA had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the collapse of those two companies. Pilot wages are a drop in the bucket compared to overall operations.

However, bad management is not and that is what ultimately killed those two companies.

Ah...someone with intelligence.

Very refreshing on this board.

------------------------------------------------------------------------


TWA also doesn't exist, nor Eastern, nor Pan Am. All were once highly respected, well paid pilot groups at one time....Destined to become extinct due to poor management.

My point remains the same:

- In certain economic environments, with appropriate expectations and negotiation, large percentage gains can be made in compensation.


To the naysayers with your negative comments indicating that you don't believe in yourselves or your companies ability to pay you appropriately...You are management's dream.

And, you know they read these boards...With every comment you make indicating your low expectations you help undermine your entire pilot group, your negotiators, and this once great profession.



YKMKR

 

[Whine Lover]

On another note, yes, Airtran is extremely well managed.

Although they may suck as an employer, they do know how to run an airline.

Example:

1998 (I believe)

ATA -Total Revenues approx. $985 million / Profit of approx. $6 million.

Airtran - Total Revenues approx. $475 million / Profit of approx. $40 million.


With double the revenues ATA could only make a fraction of the profit that Airtran did. And it was that way for ten years until ATA went out of business...

Another interesting fact...in the above example ATA had been in business almost 25 years, Airtran only 5.

Good management, piss-poor management.

That's all survival of an airline comes down to in the long run.

It has nothing to do with your piddly wages as a pilot....But management just loves those who seem to think so.

YKMKR

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Isn't higher management bonuses for Airtran's 2009 record financial performance a good thing for the pilots at the negotiating table? Kind of hard for the company to convince the mediator that Airtran can only afford a cost neutral contract when handing out big bonuses. Sooner or later you would think the mediator would tell the company to bring a serious cost increasing offer to the table or he is going to grant the Airtran pilots the release they are seeking.

Also, lets hope management's 2009 bonus includes a large chunk of AAI stock that vests in the future. That gives management more incentive not to see this place tank.

"sooner or later" perhaps.

Later is no longer an option!

 

[DonVerita]

On another note, yes, Airtran is extremely well managed.

Although they may suck as an employer, they do know how to run an airline.
YKMKR

Running an airline? I'd have to disagree with you on that one W.L.

Is AirTran management good at negotiating deals with Boeing and Engine manufacturers? Yes, without a doubt. Are they good at squeezing their suppliers? Yes, but at a cost to the overall quality of the operation.

Is AirTran management good at running a HIGH QUALITY product? Absolutely not! Their ability to step over a dollar to save a dime and their penchant for doing everything, and I mean EVERYTHING half-a$$ed is legendary.

Is AirTran management good at treating employees with dignity, respect, fairly, good QOL, and with compensation (both monetary and otherwise) that reflects the employee's efforts to make AirTran the profitable company that it is today? Not even in the ballpark!

And that is why the only way to effect a true paradigm shift at this company is with a full on STRIKE.

FUPM or STMFD!!

 

[Whine Lover]

"..they do know how to run an airline."

Well, perhaps the above statement is a bit generous.

I probably should have said something to the effect of:

" In spite of their many shortcomings, at least they know how to make enough money to survive and/or prosper. "

Which, in and of itself, is a pretty mean feat in the environment of the last decade or so.




YKMKR

 

[b82rez]

An email that was just sent out to YX furloughs

Hello Midwest Pilots

Thank you so much for your interest in our First Officer position with AirTran Airways! The response has been overwhelming, hence the reason I am contacting you versus Stephanie Grantham. She sends her apologies but wanted me to get back with you so that you are not waiting on her in suspense!

Yes, the First Officer position was posted on Friday evening and was taken down on Sunday evening. We did this so that the pilots who are scheduled for our February class could update their application. If you applied, then yes, your information is documented and will remain in the system.

We will post the First Officer position again in the near future because we will have a March class and those pilots too, will need to update their information in the system. After the March class, there are no other classes scheduled (as of now…).

We are encouraged with our February and March new hire classes and hope that will be a jump start to future classes. When the pilot hiring window begins, you can be sure that the position will be posted a lot longer than a weekend! Also, if you are in contact with a AirTran Airways line pilot, the Chief Pilot’s Office will send an announcement to all line pilots so that they too can inform you that our pilot hiring window is open.

I hope that clears up any confusion out there. Again, we appreciate your interest in AirTran Airways and look forward to future pilot opportunities.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

"...hence the reason I am contacting you versus Stephanie Grantham..."

Who was that from?

 

[Clyde Frog]

Although they may suck as an employer, they do know how to run an airline.

Example:

1998 (I believe)

ATA -Total Revenues approx. $985 million / Profit of approx. $6 million.

Airtran - Total Revenues approx. $475 million / Profit of approx. $40 million.

YKMKR

In 1998 Joe Coor was running the show at AT and there was no Kolski/Fornaro. I think Joe Leonard came in late that year.

What I'm getting at is that it was a different management team back then.

 

[maxblast72]

In 1998 Joe Coor was running the show at AT and there was no Kolski/Fornaro. I think Joe Leonard came in late that year.

What I'm getting at is that it was a different management team back then.

Ask any Airtran guy that was around in 1998, I believe they will tell you Joe Leonard put the airline on solid footing after Joe Coor almost ran them into the ground. You have to have a profitable airline to get a good contract.

 

[DonVerita]

You have to have a profitable airline to get a good contract.

Good thing we are!

Now show me the money.

 

[JerryLundegaard]

So how much would an across the board 15% payraise for the pilots add to the payroll costs for AAI?

 

[Clyde Frog]

15%, screw that

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I would need an almost 40% raise at my seat and longevity to be at Jetblue rates.

 

[maxblast72]

I would be very surprised if the FO percentage pay raise isn't close to double the CA percentage pay raise in our next TA. Airtran CA's career expectations have not taken near the hit that Airtran FO's career expectations have since the growth rate has gone from 25% a year to 5% a year.

It will take a much more substantial raise for a yes vote out of FOs than CAs.

 

[relief tube]

Not looking to offend here, but the only pilots who are happy here are the ex-VJ scabs or the ex-military types who never held a civilian job. Even the guys from craphole regionals know this place blows. The CPO treats it's pilots like children and fire them to keep everyone in line. *************************in' joke.

so unless you work at one of the crappier regionals and need to move on no matter what, why would airtran hiring lead to anyone caring?

 

[Lear70]

So how much would an across the board 15% payraise for the pilots add to the payroll costs for AAI?

As Max said, you won't get the F/O's on board without a 40-50% increase across the board, as they are well aware they will be stuck in their seats for 6-7 years at a minimum, and the F/O rates at AAI are just about the lowest in the industry.

CA's maybe a 15% raise, but that's just COLA from when the contract was amendable and the yearly COLA raises stopped. 12 year CA's are maxed out already on the pay scale. I'd say closer to 20% for the CA's would be in order.

In other words, their overall pilot payroll will go up by at least 35-40% with the increases needed in pay, insurance, retirement, etc. I don't have the numbers in front of me for the actualy increase in CASM that would be, but I'm betting somewhere between $.005 and $.0075 per ASM, or about $2.50 per leg per person average stage length flight of 90 minutes.

 

[HalinTexas]

Reality check. And this has nothing to do with what you're worth.

50% + 1

That's all that's needed to get a contract.

I doubt that you'll see anything greater than 30% spread out over 4-5 years. 10-12% the first year. The union wants to get something to vote on. Any work rule improvement and just about any raise will bet that "+1." Pay should be secondary to work rules and particularly scope. If you don't have scope, ya got nothin'. B6 rates are a reasonable target.

You'll be surprised what people will take to keep their jobs. I'm sure you all know guys that are unemployed or underemployed pilots right now. I'm sure most of FL pilots are not prepared for a strike. Anything longer than a week hurts both parties. Probably permanently.

FL management knows this, too. I don't think they want to lose their jobs or explain to the shareholders, either.

Is it fair? Are you worth more? Probably. So am I. Haven't flown since April. Was getting $75K/yr (averaged) for that contract. ATA paid me $80K as a (displaced) FO on the B737-800. I can't expect anymore than $45K to start anywhere in this country.

Wait for it.......

Here it comes.....

"But you knew that when you came into this biz." Bullsh!t.

I "knew" that the airlines were poised for unprecedented growth throughout the '90s. So, I was told in 1989. I "knew" I could make $100K in about 5 years with AMR, DAL or maybe SWA. I "knew" there was a "pilot shortage." I "knew" it was a highly regarded profession. I "knew" with a degree and 1000 hrs. PIC turbine, I could get on just about anywhere. I "knew" no company or union could survive a strike, a la EAL. So those were going to be rare, and they were. I "knew" with my charm and good looks I could get through the door. I ain't so charming and I'm too fat for ANA (BMI just a little too high). I also "knew" that ATA wouldn't screw up the military charters that, thrice, saved our keesters. I "knew" that SWA wasn't so stupid as to let ATA get away, and therefore world domination. I "knew" that my wife, after 24 years and no. 30 on the FA list, would still have a job, while I might get furloughed briefly. So, don't give me that.

It's scope and work rules first. Pay, retirement and benefits next. In that order. Don't try to "save the profession," either. Because it's not a "profession." ALPA only wants dues. They hang their hat on lobbying efforts, not pilot pay or benefits.

Good luck. We're all counting on you. imp:

I also upgraded my app, but I'm not expecting a call.

One last thing to remember. If it were truly a profession, our skills would be marketable through an open market. That doesn't exist anywhere but maybe Asia and/or the ME. That's arguable. If the fair market for pilots truly existed in the US, no one would be making six figures. Pilots are a dime a dozen right now. I'm one of them.

 

[maxblast72]

In other words, their overall pilot payroll will go up by at least 35-40% with the increases needed in pay, insurance, retirement, etc. I don't have the numbers in front of me for the actualy increase in CASM that would be, but I'm betting somewhere between $.005 and $.0075 per ASM, or about $2.50 per leg per person average stage length flight of 90 minutes.

Airtran pilot total payroll is around $200 million. A 35-40% increase is $70-80 million added to Airtran total cost per year (or approximately 3-4% increase in total costs).

 

[maxblast72]

Reality check. And this has nothing to do with what you're worth.

50% + 1

That's all that's needed to get a contract.

While that is true in theory, supposedly our MEC is not going to bring a contract back to the pilot group to vote on unless they are confident that it will pass with any problems. The MEC doesn't want a repeat of the NPA failure (of recommending a TA that gets shot down). The current MEC says they are not going to bring a contract to vote with a neutral vote from the MEC.

Basically that means we will probably get hung up at the table since the MEC will know the company's best offer won't pass convincingly.

 

[HalinTexas]

While that is true in theory, supposedly our MEC is not going to bring a contract back to the pilot group to vote on unless they are confident that it will pass with any problems. The MEC doesn't want a repeat of the NPA failure (of recommending a TA that gets shot down). The current MEC says they are not going to bring a contract to vote with a neutral vote from the MEC.

Basically that means we will probably get hung up at the table since the MEC will know the company's best offer won't pass convincingly.

Good luck with that. I don't think it changes their thinking. They're not going to wait around for the perfect contract, and I don't think they're going to "choke that golden goose" again. Don't expect to be released any time soon, which might be a good thing.

 

[Clyde Frog]

. I'm sure most of FL pilots are not prepared for a strike. .

I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Whine Lover]

" What I'm getting at is that it was a different management team back then."


True. But the financial track record for the last decade is still indicative of some ability on your managements part.

As far as a strike goes...Didn't you guys have a strike vote that was in favor of a strike by a very high percentage? Mid 90% range?


YKW

 

[Ty Webb]

Good post(s), HAL.

You have to factor in some other considerations, though, in your 50% +1 scenario:

Almost 50% of the pilots are FO's, and 95% of them are p.o.'d . . .

So are the junior CA, especially those that have been on reserve for two years, with little growth in sight (you're talking about 30% of the CA here).

Plus, little by little, over the past 5 years, the Company has managed to p.o. all but the 10 percenters . . . .

So, what it takes to cobble together 50% + 1 is going to have to be pretty good for a large majority of pilots, IMHO.

 

[Lear70]

Airtran pilot total payroll is around $200 million. A 35-40% increase is $70-80 million added to Airtran total cost per year (or approximately 3-4% increase in total costs).

So with CASM sitting right around $0.12 cents per ASM, a 3-4% increase would be $.0036 to $.0048 cents per ASM?

(I *think* it's around 12 cents per ASM, Yahoo doesn't give free 8-k access anymore, they make you pay for Edgar's access, and I haven't found an alternate source yet)...

 

[maxblast72]

So with CASM sitting right around $0.12 cents per ASM, a 3-4% increase would be $.0036 to $.0048 cents per ASM?

(I *think* it's around 12 cents per ASM, Yahoo doesn't give free 8-k access anymore, they make you pay for Edgar's access, and I haven't found an alternate source yet)...

Airtran hit 12 cents per ASM when fuel was $4/gallon in 2008. Airtran CASM is way lower than that now with Q3 2009 CASM of 9.18 cents per ASM. Our nonfuel CASM of 6.10 cents per ASM was substantially lower than SWA nonfuel CASM of 7.11 cents per ASM (Q3 2009). So you right, even if we raise our nonfuel CASM .3-.5 cents per ASM due to a significantly better contract, we would still have a pretty large advantage over Southwest.