Airtran Hiring news?

[JerryLundegaard]

So how much would an across the board 15% payraise for the pilots add to the payroll costs for AAI?

 

[Clyde Frog]

15%, screw that

 

[Secret Squirrel]

I would need an almost 40% raise at my seat and longevity to be at Jetblue rates.

 

[maxblast72]

I would be very surprised if the FO percentage pay raise isn't close to double the CA percentage pay raise in our next TA. Airtran CA's career expectations have not taken near the hit that Airtran FO's career expectations have since the growth rate has gone from 25% a year to 5% a year.

It will take a much more substantial raise for a yes vote out of FOs than CAs.

 

[relief tube]

Not looking to offend here, but the only pilots who are happy here are the ex-VJ scabs or the ex-military types who never held a civilian job. Even the guys from craphole regionals know this place blows. The CPO treats it's pilots like children and fire them to keep everyone in line. *************************in' joke.

so unless you work at one of the crappier regionals and need to move on no matter what, why would airtran hiring lead to anyone caring?

 

[Lear70]

So how much would an across the board 15% payraise for the pilots add to the payroll costs for AAI?

As Max said, you won't get the F/O's on board without a 40-50% increase across the board, as they are well aware they will be stuck in their seats for 6-7 years at a minimum, and the F/O rates at AAI are just about the lowest in the industry.

CA's maybe a 15% raise, but that's just COLA from when the contract was amendable and the yearly COLA raises stopped. 12 year CA's are maxed out already on the pay scale. I'd say closer to 20% for the CA's would be in order.

In other words, their overall pilot payroll will go up by at least 35-40% with the increases needed in pay, insurance, retirement, etc. I don't have the numbers in front of me for the actualy increase in CASM that would be, but I'm betting somewhere between $.005 and $.0075 per ASM, or about $2.50 per leg per person average stage length flight of 90 minutes.

 

[HalinTexas]

Reality check. And this has nothing to do with what you're worth.

50% + 1

That's all that's needed to get a contract.

I doubt that you'll see anything greater than 30% spread out over 4-5 years. 10-12% the first year. The union wants to get something to vote on. Any work rule improvement and just about any raise will bet that "+1." Pay should be secondary to work rules and particularly scope. If you don't have scope, ya got nothin'. B6 rates are a reasonable target.

You'll be surprised what people will take to keep their jobs. I'm sure you all know guys that are unemployed or underemployed pilots right now. I'm sure most of FL pilots are not prepared for a strike. Anything longer than a week hurts both parties. Probably permanently.

FL management knows this, too. I don't think they want to lose their jobs or explain to the shareholders, either.

Is it fair? Are you worth more? Probably. So am I. Haven't flown since April. Was getting $75K/yr (averaged) for that contract. ATA paid me $80K as a (displaced) FO on the B737-800. I can't expect anymore than $45K to start anywhere in this country.

Wait for it.......

Here it comes.....

"But you knew that when you came into this biz." Bullsh!t.

I "knew" that the airlines were poised for unprecedented growth throughout the '90s. So, I was told in 1989. I "knew" I could make $100K in about 5 years with AMR, DAL or maybe SWA. I "knew" there was a "pilot shortage." I "knew" it was a highly regarded profession. I "knew" with a degree and 1000 hrs. PIC turbine, I could get on just about anywhere. I "knew" no company or union could survive a strike, a la EAL. So those were going to be rare, and they were. I "knew" with my charm and good looks I could get through the door. I ain't so charming and I'm too fat for ANA (BMI just a little too high). I also "knew" that ATA wouldn't screw up the military charters that, thrice, saved our keesters. I "knew" that SWA wasn't so stupid as to let ATA get away, and therefore world domination. I "knew" that my wife, after 24 years and no. 30 on the FA list, would still have a job, while I might get furloughed briefly. So, don't give me that.

It's scope and work rules first. Pay, retirement and benefits next. In that order. Don't try to "save the profession," either. Because it's not a "profession." ALPA only wants dues. They hang their hat on lobbying efforts, not pilot pay or benefits.

Good luck. We're all counting on you. imp:

I also upgraded my app, but I'm not expecting a call.

One last thing to remember. If it were truly a profession, our skills would be marketable through an open market. That doesn't exist anywhere but maybe Asia and/or the ME. That's arguable. If the fair market for pilots truly existed in the US, no one would be making six figures. Pilots are a dime a dozen right now. I'm one of them.

 

[maxblast72]

In other words, their overall pilot payroll will go up by at least 35-40% with the increases needed in pay, insurance, retirement, etc. I don't have the numbers in front of me for the actualy increase in CASM that would be, but I'm betting somewhere between $.005 and $.0075 per ASM, or about $2.50 per leg per person average stage length flight of 90 minutes.

Airtran pilot total payroll is around $200 million. A 35-40% increase is $70-80 million added to Airtran total cost per year (or approximately 3-4% increase in total costs).

 

[maxblast72]

Reality check. And this has nothing to do with what you're worth.

50% + 1

That's all that's needed to get a contract.

While that is true in theory, supposedly our MEC is not going to bring a contract back to the pilot group to vote on unless they are confident that it will pass with any problems. The MEC doesn't want a repeat of the NPA failure (of recommending a TA that gets shot down). The current MEC says they are not going to bring a contract to vote with a neutral vote from the MEC.

Basically that means we will probably get hung up at the table since the MEC will know the company's best offer won't pass convincingly.

 

[HalinTexas]

While that is true in theory, supposedly our MEC is not going to bring a contract back to the pilot group to vote on unless they are confident that it will pass with any problems. The MEC doesn't want a repeat of the NPA failure (of recommending a TA that gets shot down). The current MEC says they are not going to bring a contract to vote with a neutral vote from the MEC.

Basically that means we will probably get hung up at the table since the MEC will know the company's best offer won't pass convincingly.

Good luck with that. I don't think it changes their thinking. They're not going to wait around for the perfect contract, and I don't think they're going to "choke that golden goose" again. Don't expect to be released any time soon, which might be a good thing.

 

[Clyde Frog]

. I'm sure most of FL pilots are not prepared for a strike. .

I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Whine Lover]

" What I'm getting at is that it was a different management team back then."


True. But the financial track record for the last decade is still indicative of some ability on your managements part.

As far as a strike goes...Didn't you guys have a strike vote that was in favor of a strike by a very high percentage? Mid 90% range?


YKW

 

[Ty Webb]

Good post(s), HAL.

You have to factor in some other considerations, though, in your 50% +1 scenario:

Almost 50% of the pilots are FO's, and 95% of them are p.o.'d . . .

So are the junior CA, especially those that have been on reserve for two years, with little growth in sight (you're talking about 30% of the CA here).

Plus, little by little, over the past 5 years, the Company has managed to p.o. all but the 10 percenters . . . .

So, what it takes to cobble together 50% + 1 is going to have to be pretty good for a large majority of pilots, IMHO.

 

[Lear70]

Airtran pilot total payroll is around $200 million. A 35-40% increase is $70-80 million added to Airtran total cost per year (or approximately 3-4% increase in total costs).

So with CASM sitting right around $0.12 cents per ASM, a 3-4% increase would be $.0036 to $.0048 cents per ASM?

(I *think* it's around 12 cents per ASM, Yahoo doesn't give free 8-k access anymore, they make you pay for Edgar's access, and I haven't found an alternate source yet)...

 

[maxblast72]

So with CASM sitting right around $0.12 cents per ASM, a 3-4% increase would be $.0036 to $.0048 cents per ASM?

(I *think* it's around 12 cents per ASM, Yahoo doesn't give free 8-k access anymore, they make you pay for Edgar's access, and I haven't found an alternate source yet)...

Airtran hit 12 cents per ASM when fuel was $4/gallon in 2008. Airtran CASM is way lower than that now with Q3 2009 CASM of 9.18 cents per ASM. Our nonfuel CASM of 6.10 cents per ASM was substantially lower than SWA nonfuel CASM of 7.11 cents per ASM (Q3 2009). So you right, even if we raise our nonfuel CASM .3-.5 cents per ASM due to a significantly better contract, we would still have a pretty large advantage over Southwest.