Airtran gets into the RJ game

[rightrudder]

I think i'm gonna puke now.

 

[XGmaninGA]

Hey guys,

Let's drop the personal animosity. This is one AirTran pilot who hopes the Delta guys as well as others can go back to work. There is enough flying for all of us, war in the Middle East not withstanding.

Fly safe.

 

[46Driver]

Kind of interesting that the AirTran bubbas want the Air Whiskey RJ's but everybody on the outside is telling them to have one list. It might not be possible to buy RJ's right now since so many people want them - in addition, a codeshare lets them expand NOW - as Nathan Bedford Forrest said, "Get there firstest with the mostest". If they waited, the opportunity to expand might not be there in a year or so when they could get the aircraft delivered and the pilots trained. Just an observation....... and I have no dog in this fight - but it is interesting to watch.

 

[TurboS7]

Ask the AMC guys at Dover and Frankfort if they are flying enough?????If the Mid-east things breaks the CRAFT program will go into full swing and there will be flying for everyone.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Hey guys,

Let's drop the personal animosity. This is one AirTran pilot who hopes the Delta guys as well as others can go back to work. There is enough flying for all of us, war in the Middle East not withstanding.

Fly safe.

Thanks,

I wish you guys the best as well.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Just so you know, I still have the world by the balls. Delta didn't define me, and the same qualities that made me successful in my quest for Delta are making me successful in other ventures, be they educational, financial, or personal.

Yeah, look at me now. I'm still doing fine and will continue to do so.

Glad to see your Dale Carnegie evening class at the community college is paying off.

Your attitude and general outlook on life has greatly improved from a few months ago.

 

[skydash]

In this newfound spirit of love and peace,I'd just like to say that we,the pilots of SWA.....love everyone.

 

[crosscut]

"...Fred Reid has stated (to me) that concessions would not save any pilot jobs."

"...you cannot possibly deny that the largest cost savings you enjoy come from your largest expense...labor....An airlines largest expense is emplyee wages, and it is here that low fare airlines gain the largest advantage...They pay their employees less...To assume otherwise is erroneous

"To answer your question, the "others" to whom I was referring were the many EAL scabs at AAI. Again, most (better?) of their guys are fine professionals, I do have a major problem with the scabs on their list, and CAL's, and UAL's and ours.".

Delta, it's either one or the other. How do you lower your labor cost w/out concessions?

Good back pedal on the "many/most", delta.

I’m sorry (not really) my “unprecedented scum bag low pay” ruined your party. What’s it like to have been born privileged? The more you post, the more you appear to misrepresent the Delta pilot group that I know (and I do know a few). You address someone as a wuss for not being greeted to in the terminal, I can’t speak on behalf of everybody, but every pilot I know could give a flying rat’s a$$. The more I read your messages, the more your appear to regard yourself as a Harvard graduate while looking down on the rest as 2 year community state college drop outs.

As for your other post, such as “setting the bar in the name of professionalism, outsourcing to lower wage carriers, blah-blah-blah, so forth”– I have this to say: market forces! Learn it. Live it. Love it. – because you can’t change them. It starts with the low paying customer. BTW, if concessions don’t save jobs, how does losing a job save one? –Ask anyone of your 1,500 flight attendants to be soon let go. Wait a minute, that must be another “positive” pressure from management, as per your definition of “positive.” I get it. BTW, I bet they now wish they’d unionize for their poor sake when they had a chance.

Thus far I haven’t seen anyone out to insult your pilot group. Do people resort to their roots when they stereotype? – sure! See, no one is as God-like as you & some may even lose their cool as their livelyhoods are at stake. I, as you, too, enjoy flying. I bet your 930 some fellow pilots, too, wish they were flying. So, why wouldn’t it be an honorable thing to do for the “have’s” to be so considerate so as to lower “the bar” enough to get the “have not’s” their jobs back (which is what we did-or would you classify this as scabbing - working for lower wages)? Put your ALPA “professionalism” aside and speak your heart. Management didn’t ask for concessions? – get a life. Like they haven’t seen ALPA’s recent response to concessions. You say, “someone else told you concessions aren’t needed to try to help my company survive against all odds.”- I say, “put your own wit to work on this one.”

 

[crosscut]

In this newfound spirit of love and peace,I'd just like to say that we,the pilots of SWA.....love everyone.

Guys, don't drop your soap when you shower.

(I guess, if you do, turn your back towards the wall).

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Delta, it's either one or the other. How do you lower your labor cost w/out concessions?


------Was kind of hoping others would raise theirs so all of us don't have to lower ours.

Good back pedal on the "many/most", delta.

-------No backpeadal, but again, if you want to look for insult, you'll probably find it, even when none was intended.

I’m sorry (not really) my “unprecedented scum bag low pay” ruined your party.

-----Why the quotes? I didn't say anything like that?


What’s it like to have been born privileged?


---------You're right. I was born a Delta pilot. I didn't work for it at all.

The more you post, the more you appear to misrepresent the Delta pilot group that I know (and I do know a few). You address someone as a wuss for not being greeted to in the terminal, I can’t speak on behalf of everybody, but every pilot I know could give a flying rat’s a$$.


-------Read the thread "who says hi in the terminal." I called the guys who complained about it wusses. I realize that most don't care. I don't either. That was my point. The guys who complain about such things do. If you don't complain, I don't know why you felt the need to respond.

The more I read your messages, the more your appear to regard yourself as a Harvard graduate while looking down on the rest as 2 year community state college drop outs.


---------Oh please. I spoke of market forces and our options. If you found insult or arragance in that, I really don't know what to tell you.

As for your other post, such as “setting the bar in the name of professionalism, outsourcing to lower wage carriers, blah-blah-blah, so forth”– I have this to say: market forces! Learn it. Live it. Love it. – because you can’t change them.

-----Really? I didn't realize that. I suppose we may as well disband our unions, because their very purpose is to give us some degree of protection from "market forces."

It starts with the low paying customer. BTW, if concessions don’t save jobs, how does losing a job save one?


--------While concessions would certainly save money, our president himself said that they would only keep as many pilots as they need, concessions or not. Want to argue, call him. I'm jus tthe messenger.

–Ask anyone of your 1,500 flight attendants to be soon let go. Wait a minute, that must be another “positive” pressure from management, as per your definition of “positive.” I get it. BTW, I bet they now wish they’d unionize for their poor sake when they had a chance.

---------Our wages put positive pressure on other pilot's wages. It's called pattern bargaining, and it has worked for years. We used contributions of other groups, now I hope they use ours. If you want to twist my point, feel free, but most on here are smart enough to know what I meant. As for the f/a's, you'll have to ask them.

Thus far I haven’t seen anyone out to insult your pilot group.

------Wow, you aren't looking very hard. DBA comes to mind pretty easily.

Do people resort to their roots when they stereotype? – sure! See, no one is as God-like as you & some may even lose their cool as their livelyhoods are at stake.

-------"God-like?" I'm glad we aren't being sarcastic and insulting. You'll notice I don't resort to name-calling.

I, as you, too, enjoy flying. I bet your 930 some fellow pilots, too, wish they were flying. So, why wouldn’t it be an honorable thing to do for the “have’s” to be so considerate so as to lower “the bar” enough to get the “have not’s” their jobs back (which is what we did-or would you classify this as scabbing - working for lower wages)?

------Did you miss the part when the president of Delta said that concessions wouldn't reduce the furloughs? And no, despite your apparant paranoia, I know what scabbing is and only use the classification when I mean it. BTW, I never said I have a problem with temporary concessions on your part. It was not I who brough them up to insult your group, it was people from your side who brought them up to insult our "selfishness."

Put your ALPA “professionalism” aside and speak your heart. Management didn’t ask for concessions? – get a life. Like they haven’t seen ALPA’s recent response to concessions. You say, “someone else told you concessions aren’t needed to try to help my company survive against all odds.”- I say, “put your own wit to work on this one.”

------------If and when concessions are needed, I will support them. I will not, however, fund another price war. When a plan is presented, we will examine it. However, keep in mind that when we give, others at other airlines will have to follow, or their advantage dries up. Something to think about.

 

[crosscut]

-I’m sorry (not really) my “unprecedented scum bag low pay” ruined your party.
-Why the quotes? I didn't say anything like that?
----------Your quote, “I am not "whining" when I express concern that the new generations of airlines which compete by paying their employees less establishes very bad precedent that will affect all of us.” Quotes are there because, while not verbatim, they represent your view, and the last I want to do is to have you accuse me of plagiarizing.

-Was kind of hoping others would raise theirs so all of us don't have to lower ours.
----------My whole point is to give up a little (aka concessions) to keep our own off the street, isn’t it?

-You're right. I was born a Delta pilot. I didn't work for it at all.
----------Sure you did. Just try acknowledging every once in a while.

-While concessions would certainly save money, our president himself said that they would only keep as many pilots as they need, concessions or not. Want to argue, call him. I'm jus tthe messenger.
----------I’m glad our president sees it differently.

-If and when concessions are needed, I will support them.
----------But in an earlier post, same thread, you said, “You don't have to convince me of AAI guy's willingness to accept lower pay. That doesn't impress me. That kind of "support" I can do without.”

Again, delta, it’s either you support or you don't support. No back pedaling.

Part of the problem, delta, is I don’t see your spirit behind my monitor and all I have are your words. And if you think my misinterpreting you is an “apparent paranoia,” then, let me remind you that I’m not the only one reacting to your overconfidence.

 

[chawbein]

ALALALALALALALALALALAAAAAA!!!

Jihad! Jihad! Praise Allah!!!!



Another hijacked thread....

 

[46Driver]

Thank you Chawbein - I haven't laughed that hard in a while!

 

[chawbein]

Just glad I could make a postitive contribution to this mess of sh!t sir!

 

[Publishers]

and

and they let some of these people fly planes?

 

[TurboS7]

No just B-52's, I am surprised that he doesn't have a mushroom cloud in the background of the B-52 with the slogan"all in a days work" written under it.lol

 

[chawbein]

What, I can't make fun of terrorists??

Turbo, that's on my bumper sticker!! Just kidding, sometimes I feel like dropping a "Nucular Bomb" on threads that get out of hand, hence the joke.

 

[BoredToDeath]

Keep digging and let me know what you find. Let's also have an apples and oranges comparison while we are at it. At least in wholly owned's you have some arguiing points. It is not happening there so what makes you think it will ever happen here.

Pub,

How was showing two companies who are able to have express and mainline type flying being flown by ONELIST compairing apples to oranges? Is it just because those companies are in other countries? Give me a break, thats all the more reason it should be able to be done here.

It looks to me like it is Air Wisconsin flying that they are letting AirTran paint their planes for.

UHH?? If Airtran would'nt pay the famous Fee For Departure to AirWis then AirWis would'nt even be in that market. So no its not AirWis flying, it is AirWis performing an operation on behalf of Airtran that should be flown by Airtran pilots in whatever aircraft is suitable for the market.

Look at the rest of the industry. If all the companies did thier own flying then mgt. would'nt have anyone to wipsaw.

Every company that is using an express carrier to feed for them is shrinking the mainline and expanding express. What in the world makes some Airtran Pilots think that same thing won't happen to them. Its amazing that some of you are all for this.

 

[TurboS7]

I fly with a guy who flew B-52's out of Grand Forks,ND for a while . He said his squadron got T-shirts with the mushroom cloud and the comment, the higher ups made them get rid of them-bad P.R. You might get smashed here for using your freedom of speach to abuse a terrorist minority, they have rights too...............amazing where we have gone.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

hehe, good one, TurboS7

Back to subject though...

National Pilots Association (AirTran pilot's union), today send out e-mail to its members that stated support for company's decision for code sharing with Air Wisconsin. The email stated that they were consulted on the issue by the company, and will be monitoring the situation in the future to insure contract compliance.

 

[BoredToDeath]

National Pilots Association (AirTran pilot's union), today send out e-mail to its members that stated support for company's decision for code sharing with Air Wisconsin. The email stated that they were consulted on the issue by the company, and will be monitoring the situation in the future to insure contract compliance.

This is gonna be sad to watch happen to so many good people at Airtran. I'll send over a half used tube of K-Y. So you can get ready for the :


WHIPSAWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!

 

[AAflyer]

Different fleet types, commuter (or regional affiliations) and other items will make Air Tran more like the majors that are not performing very well. Look at JB and SWA, same fleet type, and they do their own flying. Whether it is a 180 mile flight to Rochester NY or a transcon out west.

I wish the Air Tran guys the best. I have jumped seated and always found them to be professional and extremely friendly.

Maybe they will make this expansion work. I do get a kick out of all us pilots telling everyone how to run an airline (guilty myself) but if Ican add my 2 cents.

Wait till the DC-9 are retired then purchase another type (so you don't have three). Since you switched to Boeing stay with them, don't start mixing fleets (Airbus and Boeing, that will cost money).

When your expansion plan winds down and the outsourcing contract come up, end it, and go back to all Air Tran flying performed by Air Tran pilots.

Work hand and hand with management. You guys seem to be doing it, it is obvious good relations seem to be a cataylist (sp?) in the success of JB and SWA.

Good Luck!!
AAflyer

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

-I’m sorry (not really) my “unprecedented scum bag low pay” ruined your party.
-Why the quotes? I didn't say anything like that?
----------Your quote, “I am not "whining" when I express concern that the new generations of airlines which compete by paying their employees less establishes very bad precedent that will affect all of us.” Quotes are there because, while not verbatim, they represent your view, and the last I want to do is to have you accuse me of plagiarizing.




--------------Compare my original rational statement to "scub bag low pay." You equate the two?



-Was kind of hoping others would raise theirs so all of us don't have to lower ours.
----------My whole point is to give up a little (aka concessions) to keep our own off the street, isn’t it?



---------Fine, it is your decision. I did not bring up the concessions. They do not concern me. Airlines who compete by paying their employees less (not temporary concessions, permanant rates) do concern me. I think it sets a very dangerous precedent for our profession.

-You're right. I was born a Delta pilot. I didn't work for it at all.
----------Sure you did. Just try acknowledging every once in a while.


------What are you talking about? Are you asking me to brag about how hard I worked? I would sound like the egotist you are making me out to be. All of us have worked hard. I don't get on here to brag, I get on here to discuss the state of the industry.


-While concessions would certainly save money, our president himself said that they would only keep as many pilots as they need, concessions or not. Want to argue, call him. I'm jus tthe messenger.
----------I’m glad our president sees it differently.


-------I'm glad you're glad.



-If and when concessions are needed, I will support them.
----------But in an earlier post, same thread, you said, “You don't have to convince me of AAI guy's willingness to accept lower pay. That doesn't impress me. That kind of "support" I can do without.”

Again, delta, it’s either you support or you don't support. No back pedaling.


-------I thought I was pretty clear. I do not support any airline competing on the basis of employee wages. I am not blind, I know that it is going to happen, but that does not mean I have to support the practice.



Part of the problem, delta, is I don’t see your spirit behind my monitor and all I have are your words. And if you think my misinterpreting you is an “apparent paranoia,” then, let me remind you that I’m not the only one reacting to your overconfidence.

-----------Overconfidence? Again, what are you talking about? This whole thing started because I poked fun at my own airline's shortcomings, and attempted to warn the AAI guys of the potential for disaster. Somehow my rhetorical question of "what could go wrong" turned me into "whiny" "God-like" (which I assume was sarcastic) "arrogant" and "egotistical" I am told that I am a guy who thinks "money equals merit." I am told to "get a life" and I am teased because it may be "years before I get back to my throne in ATL."

You are right. You are not the only one reacting to something, but it is not overconfience that you are reacting to. I won't guess what it is, but I have a few ideas. Remember, sometimes mobs are not in the right.

I mentioned some things that I consider to be idicitative of storm clouds on the horizon for all of us. I took the time to research annual reports and posted a rational and polite post supported with public information. You guys, on the other hand, seem content to talk about our egos. Fine. Do it without me. I won't be a part of it.

 

[TurboS7]

FDJ,
I found your information intriguing. Especially the part about the fuel. Our little company got locked in with a price of .62 cents plus flowage not good but not bad. I was surpirsed to see the high cost of fuel for Airtran. One thing you have to remember with airlines, big airlines, big expenses, big labour, big loss, big profit it all swings with the economy. A little company like Airtran and ours just look at ways to survive and eckkk out a profit.