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airtran furloughs

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Probably more. The e-mail said significant capacity reductions in Sept. My guess would be 100-200. I guess it's time to update my logbooks and spruce up the resume.
 
CaptainZero said:
Probably more. The e-mail said significant capacity reductions in Sept. My guess would be 100-200. I guess it's time to update my logbooks and spruce up the resume.
Click to expand...

What DOH would that go back to?
 
The Company currently operates 137 aircraft and has approximately 1650 pilots, for a historic ratio of about 12 pilots/aircraft.

Per Fornaro's presentation at today's Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, the Company plans a fleet of 135-140 aircraft through 2009. Let's call it 135 and assume they reduce the pilot/plane ratio to 11/1. (Any further reduction would likely require some serious changes to the present contract, changes unlikely to be agreed to any time soon, IMO.)

That brings you down to 1485 pilots for a loss of 165... IF they get to 135 aircraft.

Assuming they stay at 137 a/c for the time being, and reduce staffing to 11/1, it takes you to down 1507 pilots for a loss of 142.

But the number I keep hearing is an initial furlough of 90-120. Maybe 11/1 isn't an easy goal to reach.

FWIW.
 
CaptainZero said:
Probably more. The e-mail said significant capacity reductions in Sept. My guess would be 100-200. I guess it's time to update my logbooks and spruce up the resume.
Click to expand...

I'd first apply to SWA with your 737 type/experience (if you got a type) if you haven't already.
 
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It's outside the 60 minute window, so too late to edit my original post, but a bit of research reveals the total number of a/c operated by the company is 143, not 137, and its total number of pilots is approximately 1667. It doesn't change it much, but the original post ought to have read as follows:

The Company currently operates 143 aircraft and has approximately 1667 pilots, keeping to its historic ratio of about 12 pilots/aircraft (11.64 to be exact).

Per Fornaro's presentation at today's Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, the Company plans a fleet of 135-140 aircraft through 2009. Let's call it 135 and assume they reduce the pilot/plane ratio to 11/1. (Any further reduction would likely require some serious changes to the present contract, changes unlikely to be agreed to any time soon, IMO.)

That brings you down to 1485 pilots for a loss of 182... IF they get down to 135 aircraft.

Assuming they stay at 143 a/c for the time being, and reduce staffing to 11/1, it takes you to down 1507 pilots for a loss of 94.

And the number I keep hearing is an initial furlough of 90-120.

FWIW.
 
GoingBoeing said:
It's outside the 60 minute window, so too late to edit my original post, but a bit of research reveals the total number of a/c operated by the company is 143, not 137, and its total number of pilots is approximately 1667. It doesn't change it much, but the original post ought to have read as follows:

The Company currently operates 143 aircraft and has approximately 1667 pilots, keeping to its historic ratio of about 12 pilots/aircraft (11.64 to be exact).

Per Fornaro's presentation at today's Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, the Company plans a fleet of 135-140 aircraft through 2009. Let's call it 135 and assume they reduce the pilot/plane ratio to 11/1. (Any further reduction would likely require some serious changes to the present contract, changes unlikely to be agreed to any time soon, IMO.)

That brings you down to 1485 pilots for a loss of 182... IF they get down to 135 aircraft.

Assuming they stay at 143 a/c for the time being, and reduce staffing to 11/1, it takes you to down 1507 pilots for a loss of 94.

And the number I keep hearing is an initial furlough of 90-120.

FWIW.
Click to expand...

I can't seem to find any information about what was said at the conference, could you please post a link? Nevemind, I found it!
 
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GoingBoeing said:
It's outside the 60 minute window, so too late to edit my original post, but a bit of research reveals the total number of a/c operated by the company is 143, not 137, and its total number of pilots is approximately 1667. It doesn't change it much, but the original post ought to have read as follows:

The Company currently operates 143 aircraft and has approximately 1667 pilots, keeping to its historic ratio of about 12 pilots/aircraft (11.64 to be exact).

Per Fornaro's presentation at today's Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, the Company plans a fleet of 135-140 aircraft through 2009. Let's call it 135 and assume they reduce the pilot/plane ratio to 11/1. (Any further reduction would likely require some serious changes to the present contract, changes unlikely to be agreed to any time soon, IMO.)

That brings you down to 1485 pilots for a loss of 182... IF they get down to 135 aircraft.

Assuming they stay at 143 a/c for the time being, and reduce staffing to 11/1, it takes you to down 1507 pilots for a loss of 94.

And the number I keep hearing is an initial furlough of 90-120.

FWIW.
Click to expand...

I would be careful throwing out the simple math. I think if it comes to furloughs the company will ask for voluntary furloughs first. You might be surprised how many guys might take that, Captains and F/Os. The company will try to do all it can to prevent furloughing a first year F/O. At 40 some bones an hour and no B fund contribution, they are cheap labor. Not to mention the training cycles it creates with a two fleet airline. I am not saying NOT to update the resume and find your logbook, but to it may not be time to freak out yet. I could be way off base but I think this oil thing might be close to blowing its wad. Only time will tell. Good luck to all of us.
 
GoingBoeing said:
It's outside the 60 minute window, so too late to edit my original post, but a bit of research reveals the total number of a/c operated by the company is 143, not 137, and its total number of pilots is approximately 1667. It doesn't change it much, but the original post ought to have read as follows:

The Company currently operates 143 aircraft and has approximately 1667 pilots, keeping to its historic ratio of about 12 pilots/aircraft (11.64 to be exact).

Per Fornaro's presentation at today's Merrill Lynch Transportation Conference, the Company plans a fleet of 135-140 aircraft through 2009. Let's call it 135 and assume they reduce the pilot/plane ratio to 11/1. (Any further reduction would likely require some serious changes to the present contract, changes unlikely to be agreed to any time soon, IMO.)

That brings you down to 1485 pilots for a loss of 182... IF they get down to 135 aircraft.

Assuming they stay at 143 a/c for the time being, and reduce staffing to 11/1, it takes you to down 1507 pilots for a loss of 94.

And the number I keep hearing is an initial furlough of 90-120.

FWIW.
Click to expand...

With the cost/complexity of downgrades/furloughs, don't forget the company can bring the average block hour per line down from the mid 80's (where it is this summer) to the lower 70's for the fall.

There will be a minimum number of pilots needed to fly the busy summer, holiday, and spring breaks seasons. For the rest of the time, they can just bring the average block down.

The real question is how many total block hours does the company plan on flying with the 135-140 airplanes during the busy periods of 2009. This will determine the pilot staffing requirement for 2009.

Anyone have any info on if any 717's are being lined up for sale in 2008? Fornaro makes it pretty clear in his presentation that we have gained signicant equity since 2003 with our 737's, so it looks like most of the sales would be the more desired 737's.
 
There's many avenues which may be explore before considering furloughs,like reducing the LVI or offering volunteer furlough.
I am a taker as long as they allow me to keep my ID and pass privileges.
 
I was one of the 98' furloughees. I realize it's been a decade, but I certainly hope NPA handles this one better than the last.

The lack of information and support was obscene.

Best of luck to all of you.
 
If a guy took the voluntary, would he/she keep pass privileges and j/s ability? How about un-employment?
 
carl p said:
If a guy took the voluntary, would he/she keep pass privileges and j/s ability? How about un-employment?
Click to expand...

My wife took a voluntary furlought at ACA/Independence and the answers were no, no, and none. Don't know specifically about here though.
 
I believe the contract states the training dept. people have to go first....which they should already be gone. AT paying them 25 hours gurt. at 70-75.00 an hour=for nothing!!!!

Alot of people would take a vol. leave if offered. As a company you want top paying people to take a leave not the bottom.
 
AT CAL when offered leaves= employees could keep travel, but had to pay cobra insurance, and kept recurring senoirty.
 
carl p said:
If a guy took the voluntary, would he/she keep pass privileges and j/s ability? How about un-employment?
Click to expand...

No unemployment, but the contract says all voluntary leaves still receive benefits and maintain seniority.
 
I believe the contract states the training dept. people have to go first....which they should already be gone. AT paying them 25 hours gurt. at 70-75.00 an hour=for nothing!!!!
Click to expand...
The retired guys have no guarantee.
 
Don't know if it the same at all airlines and in all states. But this is the general idea:

Furlough (voluntary/involuntary)- Similar to complete seperation except you can come back when recalled. Turn in ID and lose all benefits (except COBRA). The plus is you can collect unemployment benefits.

LOA- Keep ID and some/most benefits. Drawback - not eligible for unemployment benefits.
 
Numbers from Airline pilot central:

Airtran 1675 pilots for 141 airplanes = 11.9 pilots/airplane.
1675/135=12.4 p/a
1675/130=12.9 p/a

Jetblue 2006 for 135= 14.9 p/a
SWA 5600 for 529= 10.6 p/a
Alaska 1520 for 108= 14.1 p/a
AMR 9015 for 699= 12.9 p/a
CAL 5068/375= 13.5 p/a
Spirit 546/35= 15.6 p/a
Frontier 718/62= 11.6 p/a
USAir 5028/372= 13.5 p/a
Average= 13.3

So even if we get rid of 11 airplanes our staffing levels are better than most.

The only companies with staffing levels less than 10 pilots per airplane seem to be the regionals. Expecially the ones with weaker work rules that have a better block verse credit hour ratio; making it more cost effective for them to reduce staffing.

______________________________

The bad news is this is a difference of 1 pilot or 141 pilots furloughed worse case.

Hows my math?

700 line FOs for 70 pilots not furloughed
700 line CA for 70 pilots not downgraded so...
70 pilots per list X 70 hrs = 4900 hours /700= 7 hour line value reduction for all line pilots.

This doesn't include the benefit expenses.
 
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Per SEC 8-K for June 19 2008 airtran has 143 aircraft. 87 717s and 56 737s. However, I have not seen any 737s with ship numbers above 354.
 

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