AirTran Fruloughs

[JoeMerchant]

ALPA made no such decision. Each individual MEC and pilot group makes their own decisions. This pilot group won't allow itself to be used as a checkbook balancing tool.

ALPA has made the decision to leave it up to each individual MEC....ALPA doesn't act as a whole...Because of this, pilot costs have become a "controllable expense"....fuel isn't....

Seniority transportability and contract standards are the only way to stop that...otherwise pilot costs are the largest controllable cost....

Oil has OPEC....we have ALPA.....no contest....

 

[Max Powers]

I beg to differ that there isn't routes to cut or change. Fornaro said the west coast flying is dragging our RASM down due to the long stage length. He said there is a need for some west coast stuff but maybe not as big of a percentage of our system going forward until fuel comes down (I think east-west is now close to 23% of our ASM). He said the focus for the near term will be the 500-1000 mile stage length flights (cheaper on gas).

Also, SWF and DAB are going away. I would have to imagine it is because our RASM for those cities are not close to the RASM's out of other cities. Fornaro said we will be looking at each route individually and if it is not performing, we will cut the route to improve our overall system RASM where required. We are not going to play a market share game and stay in markets or routes that don't make sense to stay in right now (ie, we will minimize our losses).

I hope your right, I'm sure there are routes that are weaker on revenue than others. But what my point is we don't have any really strong monopoly's. The legacies and other have much greater route monopoly's they can cut back to. That is why our RASM is the absolute lowest in the industry. We Have Dayton and Ft. Myers but thats about it everywhere else we go Delta or someone else is there.

To be more clear, think of NWA out of MSP there are probably 40 or more cities only they go to. CAL out of Newark the same thing etc. NWA can simply cut their 7 flights a day to Duluth, MN down to 6 or 5 and Jack the prices up because they are the only ones that fly there. We don't go anywhere like that not anywhere. This means we are completely dependent on others to drop flights and the other companies especially Delta know this which, therefore makes them very reticent to drop flight that we compete on - they however are decreasing flights and increasing fares on city that we don't compete with them on - this doesn't help us any. We are in a bad place and lower our employee pay won't help. I say pray for the price of gas to drop or in time we are done.

 

[Dude]

ALPA either needs to act as a solid bargaining unit or not. The middle doesn't help your bargaining position.

 

[maxblast72]

I hope your right, I'm sure there are routes that are weaker on revenue than others. But what my point is we don't have any really strong monopoly's. The legacies and other have much greater route monopoly's they can cut back to. That is why our RASM is the absolute lowest in the industry. We Have Dayton and Ft. Myers but thats about it everywhere else we go Delta or someone else is there.

To be more clear, think of NWA out of MSP there are probably 40 or more cities only they go to. CAL out of Newark the same thing etc. NWA can simply cut their 7 flights a day to Duluth, MN down to 6 or 5 and Jack the prices up because they are the only ones that fly there. We don't go anywhere like that not anywhere. This means we are completely dependent on others to drop flights and the other companies especially Delta know this which, therefore makes them very reticent to drop flight that we compete on - they however are decreasing flights and increasing fares on city that we don't compete with them on - this doesn't help us any. We are in a bad place and lower our employee pay won't help. I say pray for the price of gas to drop or in time we are done.

There's no doubt about it. The business model of growing Low Cost Carriers does better with lower fuel prices. Now that low fuel prices are gone, it is time for us to adapt to the new business environment. The quicker we adapt to the new environment, the less cuts we will have to endure.

Your right, Airtran does not have alot of monopoly routes other than some of the ones we do out of our focus cities like CAK, FNT, PHF, MDW (the routes SW doesn't do like SRQ and BOS), and MKE (the ones that Midwest will soon be vacating). However, a good portion of the route combinations in this country involve one connection. In this regard, we compete straight up with all legacy airlines that offer one stops through their hub. We have the largest low cost carrier hub in the world in ATL with over 260 departures a day this summer. Don't underestimate the position of strength we have here.

I think Airtran will do alright long term, but there might be some painful times for the next 18 to 24 months. Hopefully, fuel comes down to a reasonable enough level or enough capacity comes out of the market to allow Airtran to bring everyone back, and to start growing again.

 

[JT12345]

What does it mean in the letter no bumping rights. Are furloughs based on Airplane or system senority?

I get the impression that the company wants to furlough more 737 guys, but they have hired more 717 guys recently. If they do it based on aircraft then senior 737 FOs will be on the street while junior 717 pilots with hire dates after them remain employed.

When do I start 717 class?

These training costs may be a way to keep more pilots employed.

 

[CatfishVT9]

What does it mean in the letter no bumping rights. Are furloughs based on Airplane or system senority?

I get the impression that the company wants to furlough more 737 guys, but they have hired more 717 guys recently. If they do it based on aircraft then senior 737 FOs will be on the street while junior 717 pilots with hire dates after them remain employed.

When do I start 717 class?

These training costs may be a way to keep more pilots employed.

Straight seniority. If the numbers are out of balance, then that's a problem for the company to sort out. Union Prez called it a "bump and flush".

Same thing for the Captain list. The 737 list is more senior than the 717 list so a bunch of us will move over and the majority of the downgrades will happen on the 717. Sorry guys. Although some will elect to downgrade rather than sublit to another round of training (especially those of us that never flew the 717).

 

[CatfishVT9]

What's DOH for the most junior Capt after furloughs? Just wondering, know a few there just do not have current numbers to call.

4-5 plus. If no one takes early retirement or a leave of absence, junior 717 CA will be a june or july 2004 date. 737 I'm guessing will be around September 2003.

 

[maxblast72]

Assuming every Captain has his first choice to stay as Captain on either airplane if they can, the most junior 717 CA will be a June 2004 hire and the most junior 737 CA will be a June 2003 hire when all training is done.

 

[maxblast72]

I think the training costs of the downgrades/transitions will be covered. Union president said yesterday that our next airplane delivery wouldn't be until sometime in 2010 (I think he said later part of 2010, obviously subject to change). That would give the company time (18 to 24 months) to recoup the costs of these additional training events caused by the reductions.

 

[Lear70]

What does it mean in the letter no bumping rights. Are furloughs based on Airplane or system senority?

I get the impression that the company wants to furlough more 737 guys, but they have hired more 717 guys recently. If they do it based on aircraft then senior 737 FOs will be on the street while junior 717 pilots with hire dates after them remain employed.

What you're talking about is the WARN Act letters that came out.

The WARN Act pretty much doesn't apply to us, given our structure and how many people are affected, but they sent them out to cover their tail.

It also very SPECIFICALLY says "unless governed by a Collective Bargaining Agreement", then talks about "bumping rights". In other words, our CBA trumps the WARN Act.

I'm sure the company would like relief from re-training everyone who is displaced off their equipment and then causes secondary displacements. Yes, it's likely a couple Million in training costs, but they're going to save (according to them) $16 Million a year; I'm sure they see it as an acceptable trade.