AirTran expansion likely, says Hoeksema

[FlyWolf]

Actually the $1.30 to 1.50 Midwest is forecasting = 40 Millions in profit for 2007 (if they don't lower it anymore)

RJ's, No, it won't kill us, actually we needed 50 seat RJ's for a while now, don't know if you remember we actually ordered few EMB145 and then canceled the order because of our financial situation. The company did the next best thing with Skywest, truly I don't think its a negative thing.

Now, they can concentrate on the MD80 replacement and not worry about the 50 seat market for now.

We have a lot of smaller markets that doesn't support a 717, Airtran didn't like the RJ and that doesn't mean the RJ will be a bad thing for Midwest, just way too many variables between the two airlines here.

 

[gt1900]

All you have to do is look no further than Horizon Airlines.. When they were researching the replacement of the F28 they looked at 50 seat RJ's.. Horizon said the 50 seat RJ doesn't make any sense because you can't make any money with it because the operating costs were so high, thus the reason they bought 70 seat RJ's. Even now, Horizon basically says the 70 seat RJ is a break even airplane and they make their money with the Q400.. You guys can say what you want, but Midex needs RJ's like SWA "needs" RJ's.. Airtran tried it, and it didn't work.. But Hoeksema may know something that nobody else does..

 

[Citrusflyer]

Did the RJ's kill Airtran?

No...we cut them loose long before they could!

 

[CitationLover]

All you have to do is look no further than Horizon Airlines.. When they were researching the replacement of the F28 they looked at 50 seat RJ's.. Horizon said the 50 seat RJ doesn't make any sense because you can't make any money with it because the operating costs were so high, thus the reason they bought 70 seat RJ's. Even now, Horizon basically says the 70 seat RJ is a break even airplane and they make their money with the Q400.. You guys can say what you want, but Midex needs RJ's like SWA "needs" RJ's.. Airtran tried it, and it didn't work.. But Hoeksema may know something that nobody else does..

100% of horizon's RPM's are from RJ's and turboprops.

from midwest's latest 10K (in '000's):

Midwest Airlines RPM - 3,827,111
times 19/18 (again conservative as this factor assumes 717 capacity is the same as an MD80) for 2 MD80 growth = 4,039,728

Skyway's RPM - 259,283
times 350% for a conservative estimate* for Skywest = 907,491

* should be 1250 (25x50) / 504 (32x11 + 19x8) but 1900's will be leaving soon

thus Midwest's RPM's are only 18.3% generated from RJ's including Skywest (around the same percentages as United and Delta).

This does not also include the real possibility of Midwest EXPANDING capacity by 13.6% on their 717 fleet (going to 100 seats instead of 88) without adding an airplane, which would further boost Midwest Airline's RPM's by 10%.

I have been trying to get a copy of the Midwest contract, but have not been successful. What does it say regarding scope of Midwest Airlines flying? That would be what would concern me.

 

[FlyWolf]

Citation, if you live in MKE just stop by the ALPA office on Howell, Miss T will be more than happy to give you a copy.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

All you have to do is look no further than Horizon Airlines.. When they were researching the replacement of the F28 they looked at 50 seat RJ's.. Horizon said the 50 seat RJ doesn't make any sense because you can't make any money with it because the operating costs were so high, thus the reason they bought 70 seat RJ's. Even now, Horizon basically says the 70 seat RJ is a break even airplane and they make their money with the Q400.. You guys can say what you want, but Midex needs RJ's like SWA "needs" RJ's.. Airtran tried it, and it didn't work.. But Hoeksema may know something that nobody else does..

Thats comparing apples to oranges. The RJ Costs with Airtran were significantly higher with Air Wisconsin(before Concessions) than Skywest operating costs are now. Plus Midwest is not assuming all the debt and risk of owning these A/C.

 

[CitationLover]

No...we cut them loose long before they could!

it was a good precedent you guys set!

i hope in the future the primary growth is in the 717's or 737/A320 at midwest! but this current arrangement is the hand midwest's pilots are dealt now.

 

[Lear70]

Thats comparing apples to oranges. The RJ Costs with Airtran were significantly higher with Air Wisconsin(before Concessions) than Skywest operating costs are now. Plus Midwest is not assuming all the debt and risk of owning these A/C.

Neither did AirTran when they operated them.

People just don't get it. I have the operating cost data from Bombardier on the CRJ-200; it is a MONEY LOSER. It was designed simply to connect high-fare passengers into the major airline hubs for transcon and international flying. Period.

Every time it takes off, it costs more money to fly than it makes. The operators who are flying it make money because the major they are flying for pays them a fee per departure or fee per mile.

If you have any questions about how economical a 50-seater in combination with narrow body mainline is, just ask an Indy Air pilot.

Incidentally, that comic is HILARIOUS!!

 

[Ty Webb]

The airline exec booted out of the plane should have had a contract sticking out of his pocket with "T/A 2007" written on it, because that is what the majority of our pilots are going to do when they see this turd . . . . . . giving it the boot.


.

 

[Lear70]

The airline exec booted out of the plane should have had a contract sticking out of his pocket with "T/A 2007" written on it, because that is what the majority of our pilots are going to do when they see this turd . . . . . . giving it the boot.

Don't hold back... tell me how you really feel about it! LOL...

I agree though. I have immediate NO vote items that, if present on the T.A., will simply cause me to put the rest of it in the "Can you believe they even tried to pass this" junk box in the closet (for sentimental value - and a good laugh - during retirement).

Unfortunately, I've heard 2 of them are done deals and included on the T.A.'d section. Been hearing the rumors from multiple sources, one or two of which I believe are in the "know" enough to be believed.

I'll wait 'till I see it, but I can honestly say the talk has made me solidify what I really need -vs- "it would be nice to have" items.

 

[FlyWolf]

The airline exec booted out of the plane should have had a contract sticking out of his pocket with "T/A 2007" written on it, because that is what the majority of our pilots are going to do when they see this turd . . . . . . giving it the boot.


.

 

[FlyWolf]

^^ how's that Ty

 

[Ty Webb]

FlyWolf-

Thanks for the laugh . . . . . I think I just set a distance record for shooting single-malt Scotch out of the human nose . . . . .

I imagine that picture will end up on quite a few refrigerators- it will be on mine, as soon as I get home!

TW

 

[CoolSidePillow]

AAI seems to be hiring a lot and buying airplanes. How do things look from within? PAX loads good?

 

[FlyWolf]

FlyWolf-

Thanks for the laugh . . . . . I think I just set a distance record for shooting single-malt Scotch out of the human nose . . . . .

I imagine that picture will end up on quite a few refrigerators- it will be on mine, as soon as I get home!

TW

Glad you got a kick out of it Ty