AirTran emergency lndg.

[Lear70]

Oh yeah... any more news on the emergency landing?

lol - talk about a thread hijack...

 

[CatYaaak]

Then they'd better get off their collective butts and DO something about it, 'cause the Iranian nuclear program is getting closer every day to having weapons-grade plutonium in medium-range missiles at their fingertips.

I don't disagree *completely* with your assessment of France's part in all this, although I think it's a bit strong even though they DO bear a large responsibility for their past actions.

But, conversely, I don't know what getting Europe united behind us would help do against religious millitants. There's only so much that economic sanctions and non-military action can do.

Additionally, there are so MANY middle-Eastern ethnic groups scattered throughout Europe, that the lines are WAY too blurred for any kind of meaningful internal action. Same problem we have here in the States, you don't know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, so what kind of "action" can you take without turning it into a police state?

Don't get me started on the U.N. I haven't seen a positive thing out of them since I was in early High School.

Arab countries can't do a lot about Iran, even collectively without help. They couldn't do anything about Hussein after he gave up attacking Iran and began attacking them. And Hussein couldn't take out Iran in an 8 year war. Besides Baathist Iraq, Syria, and Israel, most Middle East countries have very small military forces, and even then they are geared for defense and internal security rather than waging an offensive war.

Before GW1, close to 40% of Iraq's GNP was used for military spending. Except for the two others mentioned, no other Middle East countries come close to that. I don't think we'd want them too either.

But Iran getting nukes might just spur them to historic action in some way. By now most of them I think realize that Israel probably won't use theirs unless given good reason. Most have learned to live with that nominal nuclear threat. My guess though, is they think Iran probably WILL use them if they get them, for duplicitous reasons involving Israel dovetailing into an attempt to dominate the Muslim world. And China..with long ties to Iran.. might just like to see it all happen.

I should have been clearer about getting people on board. You're right, there's only so much non-military pressure and sanctions can do. But I was referring more to tacitly sanctioning, appeasing, and sometimes handing those wanting to kill us ready-made propoganda that furthers their cause and helps their recruiting.

France's very-public, pack-leading anti-American stance in the U.N. is something that emboldens terrosists and served as an attempted whipsaw tactic against new entries coming into the EU in 2003. They make no bones about wanting to be it's unofficial heavyweight. We know they did it for oil and oil contracts for Total/Elf/Fina. We know German construction firms were busy making money designing and building Saddam's bunkers and palaces. We know Russia loved him as a military hardware customer. Their backpedaling tactics, torpedoing support, and encouragement to resist our endeavors has a cost. They don't care about American soldier's lives...not in the least. It's a huge mistake to think they do.

Very public, diplomatic treachery by our supposed allies does sanction those wanting to harm us. The Arab street are TV news, and more importantly, conspiracy and rumor junkies. I hate to tell you this, but the Euro-media and press, along with even some of our own, serve as bigger propoganda tools than even their own for the extremists. They don't need OBL making videos when they have The Guardian to read. I personally experience, hear, and read far more Anti-american vitriol in Europe than I do in the Middle East.

I certainly come across more smug, ignorant types who believe themselves to be geopolitical experts by birthright rather than education and experience simply because they're European, and therefore "sophisticated". Certainly they believe this relative to "Dumb Americans". This overinflated sense of self-importance is something I've never experienced in all my contacts with Arabs in the middle East, who in that respect are far more honest.

I think I've gone easy on France, and would ship the Statue of Liberty back to them tomorrow without blinking an eye.

The U.N....if airliners were being driven into buildings, that was the appropriate target.

 

[FN FAL]

Japan was an island nation...not a religion.

Japanese were easy to find...they wore uniforms and looked Japanese.

There were fronts and theaters in WWII.

You could blow up all of Iraq and Iran with A-bombs and still face hoards of terrorismodromic Islam people. Maybe even people who aren't Islamic, but don't like A-bombings.

 

[CatYaaak]

Japan was an island nation...not a religion.

Japanese were easy to find...they wore uniforms and looked Japanese.

There were fronts and theaters in WWII.

You could blow up all of Iraq and Iran with A-bombs and still face hoards of terrorismodromic Islam people. Maybe even people who aren't Islamic, but don't like A-bombings.

The Japanese were, if anything, more bloodthirsty and fanatical than our current terrorists. Ask anyone from a nation occupied by them. They were certainly more numerous and could do more damage. They even invented planned, suicidal attacks with airplanes. They loved beheading prisoners when they didn't use them as slaves. The Rape of Nanking was not just a metaphor. They regarded everyone not like them as subhuman.

And yes, there was a quasi-religous aspect to why they acted as they did, and why they were pacified so abruptly.

The Japanese Empire was a far, far bigger problem than handfuls of Islamic terrorists. To compare the two in terms of being an actual threat to our nation is silly.

The terrorists big mistake is this. If they ever DID become a real threat to the very survival of our nation, and we really DID move to a true, war footing, raise and equip an army of millions like in WW2, and concentrate on wiping them out and anyone associated with them....we could. And if it ever came to that, with "terrorist hordes" attacking us, we will.

And if that STILL didn't work, we'd begin to nuke whatever we thought was necessary and go the "total war" route, instead of nitpicking and worrying about collatoral damage as we are now.

Therin lies their lack of understanding us, and their stupidity. The Japanese were once that way too.

Why on earth would we nuke Iraq now? Hussein is gone. Killing insurgents (especially foreign ones) trying to destablize the country and giving a new government breathing rooom is the name of the game, not wiping it out. I don't neccesarily agree with this, but they are quite capable of destroying themselves without our help.

We don't need to nuke Iran either, just take out thier nuke-bomb making capability. Of course it would be a good idea to let them know that if they unleash terrorists in retaliation we'll just add them to the list of nuke-able spots. Certainly we'd actively work to destroy the regime, and let's not even pretend we'd get into nation-building afterwards. Any new one could not be more dangerous than the one they have.

If there was a way to attack Israel and plausibly frame France for it, I'd add that to the mix. It would be fun to sit back and watch it escalate out of control. As a bonus, they both have nukes, and we're upwind from both of them.

 

[PanPan]

Here's a poster idea: "You must be retarded if you can't spell you're"

I have an idear for ya Catfish. Wy donts ya take isue with an idear of mine, rather than nit pick my typin/spelin skils.

Ya, your write. that might take thinkin. Opps, I meen think'ne.

One last thing. Shudnt their be a period at the end of that sentence? Welcome to the retard club!

 

[BSkin]

The Japanese were, if anything, more bloodthirsty and fanatical than our current terrorists. Ask anyone from a nation occupied by them. They were certainly more numerous and could do more damage. They even invented planned, suicidal attacks with airplanes. They loved beheading prisoners when they didn't use them as slaves. The Rape of Nanking was not just a metaphor. They regarded everyone not like them as subhuman.

And yes, there was a quasi-religous aspect to why they acted as they did, and why they were pacified so abruptly.

The Japanese Empire was a far, far bigger problem than handfuls of Islamic terrorists. To compare the two in terms of being an actual threat to our nation is silly.

The terrorists big mistake is this. If they ever DID become a real threat to the very survival of our nation, and we really DID move to a true, war footing, raise and equip an army of millions like in WW2, and concentrate on wiping them out and anyone associated with them....we could. And if it ever came to that, with "terrorist hordes" attacking us, we will.

And if that STILL didn't work, we'd begin to nuke whatever we thought was necessary and go the "total war" route, instead of nitpicking and worrying about collatoral damage as we are now.

Therin lies their lack of understanding us, and their stupidity. The Japanese were once that way too.

Why on earth would we nuke Iraq now? Hussein is gone. Killing insurgents (especially foreign ones) trying to destablize the country and giving a new government breathing rooom is the name of the game, not wiping it out. I don't neccesarily agree with this, but they are quite capable of destroying themselves without our help.

We don't need to nuke Iran either, just take out thier nuke-bomb making capability. Of course it would be a good idea to let them know that if they unleash terrorists in retaliation we'll just add them to the list of nuke-able spots. Certainly we'd actively work to destroy the regime, and let's not even pretend we'd get into nation-building afterwards. Any new one could not be more dangerous than the one they have.

If there was a way to attack Israel and plausibly frame France for it, I'd add that to the mix. It would be fun to sit back and watch it escalate out of control. As a bonus, they both have nukes, and we're upwind from both of them.

CatYaak, you missed your calling. You should be teaching world history

 

[jstarav8r]

Wow! If anybody remembers what this thread is originally about I'll be surprised.

If anybody cares, I asked the chief pilot (TL) what happened here. I was curious if the crew called to confer with dispatch on the divert. They apparently did not because this dude decided to heat up his MRE and it produced some heat and odor so they got the airplane on the ground, if anybody cares.

And now back to our ongoing political debate.

 

[BSkin]

Wow! If anybody remembers what this thread is originally about I'll be surprised.

If anybody cares, I asked the chief pilot (TL) what happened here. I was curious if the crew called to confer with dispatch on the divert. They apparently did not because this dude decided to heat up his MRE and it produced some heat and odor so they got the airplane on the ground, if anybody cares.

And now back to our ongoing political debate.

When did TL get the promotion? Pretty sure it's FP.

 

[atafan]

Actually, a better scenario would be to let them know that any further hostilities will result in the following:

First hostility . . . . we destroy their shrine in Medina

Second hostility . . . we destroy their shrine in Mecca

Third hostility . . . . . we destroy their shrine in Jerusalem

fourth hostility . . . . . and so on.

If the consequences of the Islamofascists' actions are the destruction of the holiest sites to Muslims, perhaps the world's Muslims will wake the hell up and put an end to it themselves.

Problem is . . . no one has the big brass clanky ones to make it our stated policy.

I apologize for the continuation of the hijacking of this thread but I couldn't let this quote go without commenting on it. Ty may have the answer. The fanatics may not be afraid to die or care if their family does but maybe the threat of destruction to all their "Holy" shrines might make the masses uprise and finally take control of their "peaceful" religion.

 

[jstarav8r]

[qYuote=BSkin]When did TL get the promotion? Pretty sure it's FP.[/quote]

Well this is why I don't ever post. Somebody always looking to skewer what you say. Did not think it would be one of my own.

I stand corrected, I asked the "Manager of Flying - 717" (TL). How's that!