Lear70 said:
Then they'd better get off their collective butts and DO something about it, 'cause the Iranian nuclear program is getting closer every day to having weapons-grade plutonium in medium-range missiles at their fingertips.
I don't disagree *completely* with your assessment of France's part in all this, although I think it's a bit strong even though they DO bear a large responsibility for their past actions.
But, conversely, I don't know what getting Europe united behind us would help do against religious millitants. There's only so much that economic sanctions and non-military action can do.
Additionally, there are so MANY middle-Eastern ethnic groups scattered throughout Europe, that the lines are WAY too blurred for any kind of meaningful internal action. Same problem we have here in the States, you don't know who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, so what kind of "action" can you take without turning it into a police state?
Don't get me started on the U.N. I haven't seen a positive thing out of them since I was in early High School.
Arab countries can't do a lot about Iran, even collectively without help. They couldn't do anything about Hussein after he gave up attacking Iran and began attacking them. And Hussein couldn't take out Iran in an 8 year war. Besides Baathist Iraq, Syria, and Israel, most Middle East countries have very small military forces, and even then they are geared for defense and internal security rather than waging an offensive war.
Before GW1, close to 40% of Iraq's GNP was used for military spending. Except for the two others mentioned, no other Middle East countries come close to that. I don't think we'd want them too either.
But Iran getting nukes might just spur them to historic action in some way. By now most of them I think realize that Israel probably won't use theirs unless given good reason. Most have learned to live with that nominal nuclear threat. My guess though, is they think Iran probably WILL use them if they get them, for duplicitous reasons involving Israel dovetailing into an attempt to dominate the Muslim world. And China..with long ties to Iran.. might just like to see it all happen.
I should have been clearer about getting people on board. You're right, there's only so much non-military pressure and sanctions can do. But I was referring more to tacitly sanctioning, appeasing, and sometimes handing those wanting to kill us ready-made propoganda that furthers their cause and helps their recruiting.
France's very-public, pack-leading anti-American stance in the U.N. is something that emboldens terrosists and served as an attempted whipsaw tactic against new entries coming into the EU in 2003. They make no bones about wanting to be it's unofficial heavyweight. We know they did it for oil and oil contracts for Total/Elf/Fina. We know German construction firms were busy making money designing and building Saddam's bunkers and palaces. We know Russia loved him as a military hardware customer. Their backpedaling tactics, torpedoing support, and encouragement to resist our endeavors has a cost. They don't care about American soldier's lives...not in the least. It's a huge mistake to think they do.
Very public, diplomatic treachery by our supposed allies does sanction those wanting to harm us. The Arab street are TV news, and more importantly, conspiracy and rumor junkies. I hate to tell you this, but the Euro-media and press, along with even some of our own, serve as bigger propoganda tools than even their own for the extremists. They don't need OBL making videos when they have The Guardian to read. I personally experience, hear, and read far more Anti-american vitriol in Europe than I do in the Middle East.
I certainly come across more smug, ignorant types who believe themselves to be geopolitical experts by birthright rather than education and experience simply because they're European, and therefore "sophisticated". Certainly they believe this relative to "Dumb Americans". This overinflated sense of self-importance is something I've never experienced in all my contacts with Arabs in the middle East, who in that respect are far more honest.
I think I've gone easy on France, and would ship the Statue of Liberty back to them tomorrow without blinking an eye.
The U.N....if airliners were being driven into buildings, that was the appropriate target.
