Airtran Cuts Growth

[atldc9]

I wonder if they might take the 73 deliveries, and park some of the oldest 717's. The first ones should be around 8-9 years old in 07 - 08.

 

[Lear70]

If this situation were to continue for a longer period with Airtran, there could be of concern imo but that remains to be seen. JetBlue is under the microscope simply because they are the media magnet of the LCC's, and they have strayed from the original plan with mixed results so far. Like Kurtis says: 'These are the breaks'.

The villainious schoolmaster speaks true.

I still believe that since jetBlue has been able to raise fares of late with the other airlines, that they will be just fine. The cash flow problem 'Blue was having is solved by the increased revenue from higher ticket prices they're enjoying (even $5, $7, and $10 makes a BIG difference). Pretty basic concept, really.

Given the amount that fares have gone up in the last 30 days, I wonder if strategically jetBlue is mourning that decision and the loss of those RPM's...?

Wow. 24 hours and no one's come out of the closet with a big stick to bash airTran. cool...

 

[Truckdriver]

Wow. 24 hours and no one's come out of the closet with a big stick to bash airTran. cool...

Yeah, but somehow Airtran cutting growth turns into more of a bash JBLU post.

 

[atafan]

AirTran has my respect! The company, love them or hate them, is ran by saavy aggressive managers.

They have overcome a lot more than most other upstarts had to deal with and matured into a profitable major airline. Not many airlines can say that.

Good for you guys and thanks for hiring your share of ATA pilots, more than any other airline on this board.

 

[atafan]

Yeah, but somehow Airtran cutting growth turns into more of a bash JBLU post.

I think that the JBLU bashing is so popular has little to do with JBLU and more to do with media bashing. I'm spring loaded to not trust and loathe anything that the media is hyping. The numbers don't lie, JBLU is a great airline with great employees and great service.

I don't need the stinking "Good Morning America" crew to spoon feed me on what I need or how I need to think.

Is that twisted thinking or what?

 

[FL717]

I don't see it......

Yeah, but somehow Airtran cutting growth turns into more of a bash JBLU post.

I was rather surprised to read your comment and had to slowly go back over every post on this thread. I STILL can't find any post that amounts to jetBlue "bashing". You'll have to show them to me.

This thread didn't even mention jetBlue until you and mannyaplus11 started a side dialogue. I do not think this thread is a jetBlue bashing thread at ALL.


In fact let me add this comment to my original post from the first page:

I think that jetBlue management is 2nd only to Southwest in Labor-Management relations and are a GREAT example of how to run and manage a company from a purely H.R. point of view.

Peace.

 

[Truckdriver]

I was rather surprised to read your comment and had to slowly go back over every post on this thread. I STILL can't find any post that amounts to jetBlue "bashing". You'll have to show them to me.

This thread didn't even mention jetBlue until you and mannyaplus11 started a side dialogue. I do not think this thread is a jetBlue bashing thread at ALL.


In fact let me add this comment to my original post from the first page:

I think that jetBlue management is 2nd only to Southwest in Labor-Management relations and are a GREAT example of how to run and manage a company from a purely H.R. point of view.

Peace.

I'll agree. I hope the best for everyone at Airtran and also think it is a great company. Hopefully this slowing won't effect the hiring and upgrading as much as the slowdown at JBLU did. Lets all keep our fingers crossed for no major hurricanes and no terrorist shenanagins!

 

[Ty Webb]

That is a very poorly written article, and I think it has led some of you guys to confuse REVENUE GROWTH with GROWTH. Not the same thing.

I suspect this announcement has more to do with the fact that we made $36 million last quarter and now even the most pro-company pilot realizes that the money is there for our new contract.

We have grow

 

[Truckdriver]

That is a very poorly written article, and I think it has led some of you guys to confuse REVENUE GROWTH with GROWTH. Not the same thing.

I suspect this announcement has more to do with the fact that we made $36 million last quarter and now even the most pro-company pilot realizes that the money is there for our new contract.

We have grow

If you plan on slowing revenue growth and you are getting lots of new airplanes, you must either get less airplanes or continue to get the airplanes and fly them less. It makes no sense to continue to get lots of airplanes and then lower utilization. Other articles do say that Airtran plans on getting less 737's in 07 and 08. It does not say how many but it does say they expect to get less. And yes, you will still have "grow" just less of it. Here is an articles that say Airtran will get less 737's.

http://www.thestreet.com/_yahoo/newsanalysis/transportation/10308044.html?cm_ven=YAHOO&cm_cat=FREE&cm_ite=NA

 

[B6 Tech]

To my knowledge, we have not sold any 320's. The origional 5 tail numbers we were told are still here, and there hasn't been any mention of any sale for a couple months now. My opinion, with the launch of our charter flying, they won't be going anywhere.

 

[Truckdriver]

To my knowledge, we have not sold any 320's. The origional 5 tail numbers we were told are still here, and there hasn't been any mention of any sale for a couple months now. My opinion, with the launch of our charter flying, they won't be going anywhere.

I'm fairly certain if they are not gone yet, they will be gone shortly. The last quarters conference call had some stuff on there about the sale of those airplanes although they did not disclose who was buying them because the deal was not yet "signed". I guess the deal could have never been signed and the airplanes may not go anywhere, crazier things have happned, but I'll bet they will be gone before the year is up.

 

[B6 Tech]

Tail #'s 507, 508, 527, 528, 531. I took rides on 507 and 527 just last week, so I know they are still around. I know there was issues with the live tv install, and JAR issues. Don't know if those were resolved or not. Sorry for the thread hi-jack....

 

[Critter717]

Maybe someone with some insight on how aircraft orders and deliveries work could put this into perspective. While AirTran is buying the airplanes from Boeing it would seem that the order itself could be bought or sold.

I would agree with one of the Southwest guys. None of the planes will be parked but there most likely is some incentive for AAI to give up the delivery slot.

 

[-9Capt]

A little FYI for all those hired within the last 5 years:

Last time the company made an announcement like this was just after 9/11, along with everyone else. They used the threat of furloughs to solicit concessions from the pilots. Two months later, management gave themselves huge bonuses. When the union threatened to go public with this info, they terminated the concessions early and put out a press release with their own positive spin.

Let's not fall for their tricks again. I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

 

[Truckdriver]

A little FYI for all those hired within the last 5 years:

Last time the company made an announcement like this was just after 9/11, along with everyone else. They used the threat of furloughs to solicit concessions from the pilots. Two months later, management gave themselves huge bonuses. When the union threatened to go public with this info, they terminated the concessions early and put out a press release with their own positive spin.

Let's not fall for their tricks again. I don't believe a thing they say anymore.

Sounds like a great place to be working.

 

[newnan]

I believe a few months back the 'Tranny firmed up orders for the remaining 50 73's on option. That being said, I think those aircraft are airtrans to either take, sublet, or sell the options. They suggested doing that last year when demand was soft. It obviously turned out they didn't then and could very well have very little impact now. I doubt WN would take any, I'm sure they've got the best deal going on their own. The aircraft would most likely go to some third world operator that could not get as good a deal on their own. The Tranny might actually make a little coffee money on letting those deliveries go.
Whatever happens, you're dealing with ex-Eastern mgmt. so anything is possible.

 

[Phaedrus]

Truck: Nothing like a well informed opinion.

 

[Bluto]

The villainious schoolmaster speaks true.

Dude, it's "the Vilnius Schoolmaster". It's in Lithuania, which is where Ramius was from. I only bring it up because it has a lot to do with this discussion.

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Hey Lear70:

Would you like to comment on your quote only a month ago??:

airTran definitely won't be "pulling a jetBlue", we're probably going to post profitable quarters and years for quite a while yet to come, no reason to defer deliveries, I think they'd ACCELERATE THEM if they thought operationally they could get away with it.

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?p=1084372&highlight=pulling+a+jetblue#post1084372

You might want to read the thread again and think about how defensive you were when people questioned your arrogent comment.

Have a nice day.

 

[Phaedrus]

Hair: Arrogant? Possibly. But more likely a realistic analysis from an opinionated pilot. Gee, those are hard to come by. Far easier to believe is that management is releasing BS information in an effort to gain leverage.
Note the words "probably" and "if" in his forecast.

 

[Steeler Fan]

We'll see exactly what, if anything, this press release means in terms of the long term growth plan here.

Right after I was hired here, further hiring was suspended for more than 6 months. The schedule was pretty painful, but I'm glad I was on the property. Now, 3 years later, I'm in the top 60% here, and I personally expect the growth to continue.

One thing that FL717 pointed out, and that I've seen as well, is that AirTran is very nimble and isn't afraid to turn on a dime when they believe it's best for the company. Time will tell how fast the growth will continue here, but I'm not losing sleep yet over this latest announcement.

Steelers 28 Dolphins 17

Irish 41 PSU 17

 

[ATLDRVR]

Management has said they are going to slow the growth not completely stop growing.

 

[ron burgundy]

Home Depot Is Hiring...
Real Men ,then Pilots, Then Children...and Yeh, I Guess Women Too..
Bail While You Can.. Run For Your Lives...
Kill Off Your Family And Get The Money While You Can.
Run I Tell You......rrruuunnnnn!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh Yeah...and Wear Your Hat While Doing So..must Look Professional At All Times..even While Bending Over!

 

[Phaedrus]

Someone's feeling a liiitttle biiiitttterrr.

 

[MRYFLYER]

They need to slow the growth to pay the legal fees to fight Bud and the "Heres to you Mr. Low Cost Airline Pilot Guy" ads.

 

[scrub]

I can not believe some of you guys think this is a negotiation tactic! The board of directors and share holders would run them, (ie. Lenord ,Kolski, Klaus and Fornero) out of the country!!! and I have been here six years.......

 

[mnboyev]

I think the remaking of Independence under the veil of compass has something to do with it... Down with Mesaba... up with Compass... its all crap. Too many jets on the east coast I tell you.... once again.. supply is too great for all to prosper. Cut each others throat. Irrational behavior period.

I believe it may have something to do with negotiations. If they think they could fly 190's for cheap.. they would do it in a hearbeat.. please.... Scope Scope Scope.. Find some other carrier and defer deliveries.. who knows what they are capable of.

We get paid to fly safe and take care of our crew and pax. Negotiate till we get what is fair. I say. CONTRACT.

 

[Ty Webb]

I can not believe some of you guys think this is a negotiation tactic! The board of directors and share holders would run them, (ie. Lenord ,Kolski, Klaus and Fornero) out of the country!!! and I have been here six years.......

The market is giving them a drubbing, in other words, doing what is within their power, since "running them out of the country" isn't really an option.

Yes, it is very likely a negotiating tactic, and it seems to have worked on you. If you have been here 6 years, then you know the 3rd quarter is always soft, and management will likely eat up any profits with more bonuses.

This airline is making money, and has made money every year for the last 7 years. . . . and they can easily afford the contract the pilots have requested. That last $8 million that management stuffed into their suit pockets alone would have paid for a $6./hr raise for every pilot on the property, and their bonus money for the year would have paid for the whole contract.

Are you still leaping out of your seat to do everyone else's job and "save the airline"? I hope not. I sure as hell am not.


.

 

[scarlet]

ITs ALL ABOUT MONEY!!!

Drive the cost of stock down because we are about to get more stock options.

Then when we annouce big earnings and we have our stock, the price will rocket!!! WATCH and SEE !!

Americans will get tired of MGT. tatics one day !!!

 

[-9Capt]

I can not believe some of you guys think this is a negotiation tactic! The board of directors and share holders would run them, (ie. Lenord ,Kolski, Klaus and Fornero) out of the country!!! and I have been here six years.......

I'm working on 9 years here, and have seen lies and half truths from these clowns more times than I can count. I just don't trust them, haven't in years.

Good post TY. Your right MNBOYEV, scope is paramount. I can see them replacing the 717's with 100 seat "RJ's" for less than half what we make. Can you say wipsaw?

Do your job, nothing more. Plane broken at an outstation?, write it up. If you end up running late, all the better. The negotiating team need our help out on the line.

Treat management the way they are treating you!!