AirTran Contract issues

[Spidey]

Twepilot..... How could you vote yes on a contract that pays FO's (the guy you sit right next to) far less than industry average while you sit in the seat next to him and make above industry average wages?? How could you live with yourself knowing you sold the guy out? The FO pay rates were terrible, the didn't even reach Frontier or Alaska's concessionary contract. Guys like you really scare me, becuase you did sell out all the FO's, and future FO's... AAI has made money for 8 years in a row, soon to be 9, yet you think its OK to vote for a contract that lowers the newhire rate.... You really need to look in the mirror and take a good look... Its great that you support your Union, but you DO NOT support your fellow pilots. The union didn't support the fellow pilots either and thats why they got booted. Thank god that over 60% of the guys on property can look past there own well being and see the well being of all the pilots at AAI.. Not to be a jerk, but I'm glad that we have over 60% of the pilot group that is not like you...

Ahh, the ole blame game, from the grizzled ole SR-71 copilot. You tend to be a little scary yourself.

 

[71driver]

first year pay rates are important and legacy carriers in the past have been somewhat lower than the airtans, frontiers the reason is they have ALOT more to offer as far as retirement, equipment, QOL on and on and on so pilots are willing to make the sacrifice.

But lets address the flat line F/O rates that were in the TA's that is undefendable, people that voted for those TA's were Captain's that were line holders and had no integrity.......well...like you TWE Pilot

I just talked to a guy that flew with you and I am confident that the way he saw you so does all your F/O's you fly with, they just don't tell you, it would make the cockpit unpleasent.

Do yourself a favor look up integrity and start showing some you will sleep easier

 

[twepilot]

you talk of integrity??? And then make a post such as that. You my friend are a coward. Identify yourself so I know who or what I'm dealing with. Identify yourself to the board not a PM. You appear to be nothing but a Putt-knocker. We shall see.

Richard Vivian

 

[twepilot]

BTW, If my FO's aren't man enough to have a frank, and honest, conversation with me and not be just yes men then they get what they deserve.

RV

 

[Lear70]

No reason to start calling people names.

All that will do is entrench people further into their position of voting what's right for them without regard to the rest of the list.

Frank conversation about the repercussions of that type of position is the ONLY thing that will have ANY chance of making someone actually consider a different position.

I don't think there's an airTran pilot on property who doesn't know who I am and what I've sacrificed at this point, which is why I'm trying to have this discussion tactfully, but firmly and respectfully.

In the end there may be nothing to do but to agree to disagree, but at least I've tried.

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Thanks to the Captains that voted TA2 down and were looking out for us FO's! (From one of us that plans on staying here and making it a better place) BB

ps. From a former TWE jetstream pilot...

 

[Spidey]

Thanks to the Captains that voted TA2 down and were looking out for us FO's! (From one of us that plans on staying here and making it a better place) BB

ps. From a former TWE jetstream pilot...

So ya think the vote was a 'single-issue' thing? Pretty simple thinking.

 

[curtis46]

Gentlemen,we can agree to desagree;this is democracy at his best.we should respect everyone point of view and their right to reflect their view by casting their vote,one way or the other.
Some thing about a healthy and respectful debate,is that you can participate with an open mind,listen to others ,become better educated ,revise your position or reenforce your belief.
During TA1 and 2 campaing i thought that the f/o pay was an insult.when a captain in his breifing ask me to keep him out of trouble,he value my input.so why this not be reflected on f/o rate?
Now by educated myself by reading our contract and ldebating with others on the line,i realise there is bigger concern ,which is the risk of our flying to be giving away to the lowest bidder.no matter your seniority # everyone will be affected .
Scope protection is now my #1 priority.i want to see in plain english that any flying under A/T colour will be perform by A/T pilots.
My #2 priority is merger protection.i've heard all kind of rumors in case of a merger.we need a clear policy on this matter.
Third ,i have mine mentality is just wrong.i care about myself,my family and the f/o who is not on property yet.
Let's all together make it happens.

 

[Max Powers]

looking at airline pilot central. I Can say unequivically, that 1 st year pay SUCKS. For example..AA-35/hr, CO-31/hr, DL-49/hr, NW-30/hr, UA-32/hr etc. Looking ONLY at first year, our current rates are competetive. Hopefully, in our next TA the rates will be as competetive as they are today.

RV

Well when those pay rates got signed in(or forced in as the case may be) there were no First or second or even third year pilots at those companies.

Mr. RV Defend your position that some pilots should be going way far backward in pay while you go way far forward. What do you find so wrong with people who want to make things fair for the junior and senior guy..........And if memory serves I have heard your name more than once........And I'm betting those FO you speak of that keep quiet; do it out of a sense of professionalism - to keep the CRM alive - How do I know? Because I am one of them.

 

[TV9Driver]

You are right TWEpilot, first year pay at AA is $35/hr. But THIRD YEAR pay is $90/hr. Ours is $60/hr. And that is with their 32% paycuts.

 

[twepilot]

That is not my position at all. I have no issue with anyone trying to better themselves or their family or the various groups in our airline. What I have a problem with is the mentality that I am now some kind of a demon simply because I voted yes on TA2. I evaluated it and voted accordingly, it was not perfect..far from it in fact. But in my opinion it was as good as we were going to get looking into the future. This entire thread has become totally convoluted and emotional and this will be my last post on this topic. Again, I state that the system worked as it should. I'm not pissed at anyone voting NO on it. Why is that people are seeking blood from those that voted yes?? I don't get it. I enjoy my job immensely and feel as though my crews are my friends and family. Apparently, its not a 2 way street where thats concerened.

Ya'all have great new year.

RV

 

[CatfishVT9]

Gentlemen,we can agree to desagree;this is democracy at his best.we should respect everyone point of view and their right to reflect their view by casting their vote,one way or the other.
Some thing about a healthy and respectful debate,is that you can participate with an open mind,listen to others ,become better educated ,revise your position or reenforce your belief.
During TA1 and 2 campaing i thought that the f/o pay was an insult.when a captain in his breifing ask me to keep him out of trouble,he value my input.so why this not be reflected on f/o rate?
Now by educated myself by reading our contract and ldebating with others on the line,i realise there is bigger concern ,which is the risk of our flying to be giving away to the lowest bidder.no matter your seniority # everyone will be affected .
Scope protection is now my #1 priority.i want to see in plain english that any flying under A/T colour will be perform by A/T pilots.
My #2 priority is merger protection.i've heard all kind of rumors in case of a merger.we need a clear policy on this matter.
Third ,i have mine mentality is just wrong.i care about myself,my family and the f/o who is not on property yet.
Let's all together make it happens.

People on 'ludes should not post......

 

[Kenney G]

That is not my position at all. I have no issue with anyone trying to better themselves or their family or the various groups in our airline. What I have a problem with is the mentality that I am now some kind of a demon simply because I voted yes on TA2. I evaluated it and voted accordingly, it was not perfect..far from it in fact. But in my opinion it was as good as we were going to get looking into the future. This entire thread has become totally convoluted and emotional and this will be my last post on this topic. Again, I state that the system worked as it should. I'm not pissed at anyone voting NO on it. Why is that people are seeking blood from those that voted yes?? I don't get it. I enjoy my job immensely and feel as though my crews are my friends and family. Apparently, its not a 2 way street where thats concerened.

Ya'all have great new year.

RV

You said you would want an open honest discussion on the TA. Still waiting to hear one or two positives you thought were in that TA besides CA pay

 

[Max Powers]

BTW, If my FO's aren't man enough to have a frank, and honest, conversation with me and not be just yes men then they get what they deserve.

RV

Yep, you seem like a natural born leader!

 

[Eagle757shark]

That is not my position at all. I have no issue with anyone trying to better themselves or their family or the various groups in our airline. What I have a problem with is the mentality that I am now some kind of a demon simply because I voted yes on TA2. I evaluated it and voted accordingly, it was not perfect..far from it in fact. But in my opinion it was as good as we were going to get looking into the future. This entire thread has become totally convoluted and emotional and this will be my last post on this topic. Again, I state that the system worked as it should. I'm not pissed at anyone voting NO on it. Why is that people are seeking blood from those that voted yes?? I don't get it. I enjoy my job immensely and feel as though my crews are my friends and family. Apparently, its not a 2 way street where thats concerened.

Ya'all have great new year.

RV

When you say "I evaluated it and voted accordingly, it was as good as we were going to get looking into the future". How do you know this was the best we were going to get in the future? The previous negotiating team DID NOT negotiate, they sat in a room and waited for management to throw them a bone. Then they brought us these tired TAs! I'm tired of guys giving this defeated attitude. What you meant to say is YOU GAVE UP and were willing to accept anything! Scope was horrible, pay rates were horrible, work rules were horrible. If our negotiating team was willing to negotiate and not be intimidated by the other side, perhaps a better TA could have resulted. We had NO leadership and a negotiating team way out of their league! You voted and I'm thankful, but when you say you voted yes because this was the best we could get right now......BULL! Especially when the work rules were less than what we have in our current collective bargaining agreement. You got greedy and looked at those pay rates and that is all you saw! At least be honest about that! Because outside those payrates for a Captain with your longevity, there was nothing else in those TAs worth voting for! Section 1, Section 4, and Section 5 were horrible in those TAs and could not even compare to our current CBA. So save your preaching and your high horse about how noble you are! This TA was a pure sellout to the pilots that work here period!