Airtran called today!!

[Hopeless_in_GA]

Remember!!!!

The military has all the bombs, the only place the airlines have dropped bombs lately is on Wall Street…

 

[Hopeless_in_GA]

>>>You airline types never cease to amaze me, the sense of entitlement you have is colossal<<<
Colossal?

Wow! Somebody discovered the thesaurus in MS word tools menu…

 

[I.P. Freley]

av8instyle,

Let me guess... Former military, are you?

You missed the point, which is not that military pilots can't be trained to fly 121, but that military pilots aren't more entitled to an interview than civilian pilots.

Now, where's my cappucino machine? Surely it can't be supplied by a flight attendant, as any airline pilot already knows that "Heather" can't hand you a coffee these days after the gear is up. I guess there ARE things that civilian pilots know that you don't?

In any case, you and others are trying to make a very simple point into an argument that you and other military pilots don't know how to work in an airline environment, which isn't and wasn't the case. If you take issue, how about you just take issue with the original point, not the one you WANT it to be to make a good fight?

 

[AV8OR]

To the ex-mil guys who responded...

Preciate the input. See we CAN all get along!

Anyway, best to all. I haven't totally given up on thepossibility of Airtran, but I'm gettin pretty close to to being bound up the proverbial "golden hancuffs" at my current job.

Yall get after it though. Just keep kickin and takin thill you're where ya want to be.

Adios.

 

[IAHERJ]

Heather handed us coffee plenty on our last trip after the gear was up. I don't know what airline you work for but most that I know of allow the flight attendants in the cockpit with some new security procedures that I won't go into on this forum.

 

[I.P. Freley]

I don't know what airline YOU work for (though I am smart enough to take a guess based upon your screen name), but in OURS, you don't open the door unless a cockpit crewmember has a "pressing physiological need."

The "need" of coffee, though, isn't one of them. I have had opportunity to jumpseat or sit in the cabin in a number of airliners in the last year, and in not a one of them did I see the cockpit door open from gate-to-gate.

So... Good for you and your "Heather" flinging you caffeine at your whim, but if you are trying to make an argument about my original point (and NOT the one that AV8instyle and others would like to imagine the point was), please do. This doesn't even come close.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Okay, I will allow that I have not been on any airline flight over two hours....

But that aside, this still doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on the original point.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

 

[JimNtexas]

Does anyone think a military lawyer deserves a job on Wall Street when his tour is up simply because he served his country?

How about a battelfield surgeon. Does he deserve a job at the Mayo Clinic because he defended his country?

Or should the civilian lawyer who already dealt with corporate law for ten years get the job. Or the civilian doctor who specialized in cancer research.

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

 

[AV8OR]

DarnNearaJet, those are bogus analogies. Here are more correct analogies from the other perceptive:

Does anyone think a country lawyer is better qualified for job as a corporate litigator when he's only argued cases in small claims court when compared to lawyer who has worldwide experience in high profile legal conflicts involving cutting edge techniques?

The country lawyer is the guy who was a CFI -> Regional pilot, the corporate litigator is the military UPT->C-17 guy.

Which Doctor do you want in the emergency room? A battlefield surgeon who graduated from Harvard Medical (i.e. UPT) or family practitioner who graduated from Corn State U (Mom's FBO)?

Of course no one "deserves" a job. People should be hired based on how well their qualifications match the job's requirements. Former military pilots (I am not one btw) have excellent qualifications for just about any civilian flying job. Get used to it.

Dude, what did you just drink all the koolaid the military guys you flew with served up?

That is one lousy analogy. I take it from the equip "flown" that you were a Nav on them but have only "flown" as a private pilot. You might want to actually "fly" as a professional before you start refering to non-mil pilots as though they were a bunch of hick country jack-a$$es.

I guess I just needed a big ole slice of that flame-bait pie.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Av8or,

Don't you understand? Every civilian pilot is a country bumpkin and learned at Mom's FBO. I read it online so it must be true.

Every military pilot, however, is totally Yeagerific and are always better than civilian pilots. They are more qualified because they received military training, and we all know that there is no way that any civilian pilot could possibly be anywhere near as good. It all comes down to your first solo, and if it was in a li'l ol' 152 or something, your experience since them is useless.

Shooting at MiGs and tanks is perfect on-the-job training for flying airliners, and your wasted time in other airliners as a "country doctor" is not. Get over it.

Dang, this IS some fine-tasting Kool Aid!

 

[JimNtexas]

Av8or,

Don't you understand? Every civilian pilot is a country bumpkin and learned at Mom's FBO. I read it online so it must be true.

I'm glad I cleared that up for you.

 

[Jake]

Okay folks, can somebody please squawk 7500? This thread has been hijacked. Let's put this one to rest. I like to see when there has been a recent post about AirTran because we are finally getting some respect on this "major" airline forum. But when I click to see what people are saying about AirTran all I see is this on-going argument which has no place on this forum it frustrates me.

I have flown both civilian and military and neither pilot is better than the other (nor more qualified for an airline interview). We each bring different types of experiences and qualifications to an airline. Civilian pilots do have more experience flying the type operation that airliners fly and into the types of airports 121 operators fly into. Were it not for regional, charter and corporate pilots, AirTran would not even be an airline today. They were qualified for an interview when times were good and they are still very qualified today. Military pilots, on the other hand, bring other types of experience to the table. For fear of alienating somebody I will withhold my specific comments as to the qualifications of military pilots.

Let's lay this one to rest or at least start it under a different thread so people won't be mislead to believe there is actually some viable AirTran discussions going on here.

Thanks.

 

[I.P. Freley]

"Let's put this one to rest", you say, and then you fall right into the trap and participate in the "argument"! I am sure more than one of us got a chuckle out of your "(civilian pilots) were qualified for an interview when times were good" comment, but I won't say anything further about it.

This thread, like any other, will die when everyone is bored of it (a point I am very close to), not when you say it should end.

How about starting ANOTHER AirTran thread and let this one die a natural death? Seems easy enough.

 

[BeckyAnne]

IP do you [just] detest the military and it’s members for some unknown reason?
Do you dislike the fact that these guys and gals deserve our utmost gratitude for the job they do, and if two reasonably (not equally but reasonably… using you logic here) qualified candidates are up for a job and the military personnel is hired that it may well be the guy or gal doing the hiring saw it that way.

What is proven and you completely fail to notice is, the screening that goes into placing a military pilot far out weights anything you have gone through and the training they go through far out weighs anything you have gone through, whether you believe it, accept it or even want to understand it… or not.

What were you doing at 350 to 450 hours total time, instructing in a 152 or a 172 somewhere, maybe flying freight or charter in a Baron if you were lucky?

How about the fact that some of these guys (and gals) were boring holes through the sky at mach 2 learning how to employ a weapons system that is far more complicated than anything you will ever touch in your “civilian only” career, having to think at speeds that would have made you simply whimper, crap on yourself then pop the quitters handle and take the silk let down.

Think employing a F-16, F/A-18, B-1 or B-52 during war is as easy as punching a bunch of buttons, then you better think again on that one. Or better yet join, pay your dues and learn first hand yourself.

Or what about a fellow Marine flying support in a Hornet or a Harrier or a Helo for that matter, for a bunch of Marines pinned down on the ground, multitasking in ways you cannot imagine, dodging every **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** thing the enemy can throw at him or her, pushing themselves to the extreme all the while trying to concentrate on the task at hand?

What about those wild weasel guys/gals?

Ever seen a brass balls award?

I have…

How many civilian pilots ever achieve the position of such a team as the Blue Angeles or the Thunderbirds?

How many civilian pilots ever reach the ultimate dream of piloting or commanding the Space Shuttle?

The position I make is that military pilots have proven that they are far more trainable in a shorter amount of time to do far more complex tasks than hauling self-loading freight around all day. And while you claim that military flying as nothing to do with your beloved 121 ops, even if that is the principal crutch of your argument I, and many others who just out of respect remain silent, understand that a military guy or gal could be trained just as fast or faster to handle a 121 op as a civilian guy or gal.

This whole thread was started by a happy guy posting his fortune with Air Tran them someone else comes along and posts his congratulations and what appears to be his opinion. This obviously didn’t set with you; it evidentially incensed you enough that you have stayed with this thread for going on now two pages.

So you say that military flying has no bearing on 121 flying, okay for the sake of your argument I’ll let that stand…

I say that a military pilot has proven to the world that he or she is absolutely the best and can multitask in ways you cannot even dream of, carry out a mission or die trying all the while absorbing inhuman amounts of pressure.

I think basic indoc. for any 121 carrier would be a walk in the park for that person.

I think they have already proven to a potential employer they are a valuable asset, they can hold up their end of the deal and will do it by the book each time every time and above all understand the most important concept of all, TEAM WORK.

Reading your profile you haven’t served and maybe that was best, reading your comments here I would tend to lean that way.

But this argument could go both ways, your experience is solely civilian right?

So then, what make you the expert on military pilot training?

Becky Anne

 

[hngryflyr]

Yikes.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Yet again, another person who wants to argue about a point I didn't make. Four paragraphs in, I was giggling so hard that I didn't bother to do more than skim the rest. I especially enjoyed the part about how I am annoyed that this guy got his interview date. Instead of making an assumption, how about going back to my original post and seeing what it actually SAID? I believe the word "Happy" that he got the interview was part of it. Everything since has been in relation to someone else's assertion that he "deserved" the interview just because he was former military, and and endless stream of P-O'd MILITARY pilots telling me how grade-school easy my training was and how excellent they are in comparison to my "so easy a monkey could do it" route to the airlines.

I have nothing against military pilots, no matter how much you would like to believe it, except when they go off on how unfathomably superior they are, as is the case in your post. I happen to think that arrogance and the "my **** don't stink" attitude are highly unattractive character traits.... Not just unattractive, but dangerous and foolhardy in an airline arena. It might make for great fighter pilots, but not great AIRLINE pilots. Before you think I assign this to all military pilots, or even as being EXCLUSIVE to military pilots, there are quite a distressing number of Civ pilots who think, for instance, that they are too good for a prop airplane. We've also all seen the young regional captain strutting around the airport with the ink-is-barely-dry ATP in his/her back pocket... I find both types equally objectionable.

And since you asked if I have a bug up my backside about Mil pilots, I will relate the following. If I had to admit to having a role model, someone who I look up to as being the epitome of a pilot, he happens to be a retired USAF Colonel. An excellent pilot, to be sure, and one who is humble enough to have told me once that he doesn't miss his old supersonic steed and learns something newevery day in the air... Even in something as relatively low-tech as the 1900 he flies.

BeckyAnne, what it is that YOU have against Civ pilots? You certainly spent a lot of time attempting to explain how lowly we are, when all I did was ask how military pilots are more deserving of an interview, assuming equivalent military experience and 121 experience... Discounting entirely the pre-airline experience, which if you had bothered to read the original question you would already know. You'd also know that I didn't suggest that military pilots couldn't be trained to fly 121, that I didn't say that Civ pilots were better, and I didn't say that this guy didn't deserve his interview... So basically you are arguing a litany of points I didn't make.

Or am I not even qualified to ASK such a question, since I have never bored through the sky at Mach 2? Am I (we) really that hopeless, since we weren't subjected to the rigorous screening process?

As an aside, has it ever crossed your mind that there are thousands of civilian pilots who have "the right stuff" to actually BE military pilots, but they either didn't try or didn't WANT to be in the service? Maybe there are some who were disqualified from flight status for one minor reason or another who would have been the lead for the next Thunderbirds team? Are you so blind as to think that the only excellent pilots out there were in the service? Sure seems that way.

More than one military pilot has suggested that airline flying is playtime compared to military flying... If that is so, I guess the lame training I (we) apparently received wouldn't be any kind of a hindrance, since practically ANYONE can do it... Right?

I will agree without reservation that we owe a debt of gratitude to all our men and women in uniform. What I do not and will not agree with is that they should get all the jobs in the heavy iron just because they flew something that said USA on the side, nor are they "more deserving" of an interview than a seasoned civilian pilot. You may note (or not, it doesn't matter to me) that I never even addressed whether or not military pilots were more deserving of getting a JOB, I referred only to the aquisition of an interview date.

 

[av8instyle]

I guess there ARE things that civilian pilots know that you don't?

Dude, I flew for a civilian airline for four years before even starting my military career. I know a thing or two about both sides of the house. That's why your "reality of 121 ops" comment cracked me up. Give a dude a few hours with a Flight Crew FAR book and some basic airline indoc and he's right there with the "airline experts", just waiting to start systems and sims. But good comeback with the coffee comment. Oh, and by the way, I'm one of the military dudes that was hired into a major after being active duty, so I too can say that coffee IS still served (at at least my airline), since you seemed to make an issue out of it.

Oh, by the way, congrats T-1

 

[I.P. Freley]

Different airline, different planes, etc. I just made an incorrect assumption that post-9/11 FA's were no longer allowed in the cockpit ANYWHERE just for passing along coffees and general chit-chat... Based upon my own experience and watching other airlines as well. I was wrong, and I admit it.

I hardly made a big deal out it, anyway. Certainly not as big a deal as has been made about how worthless 121 time is when applying for a 121 job when there are perfectly good military pilots gunning for the same jobs.

And we "airline types" are the ones with an "overwhelming" sense of entitlement?

Jeez.

 

[Anaconda]

Re: Air inc

This is exactly the type of candidate that they want. He would have likely received a call eventually with or without Air Inc.

The point is that Air Inc was not the answer, excellent credentials were and if you do not have them, one of the shows will not help you.

i know of a lot of people that got an interview only because they went to an air inc conference, despite having their resume walked in. i would say air inc had a lot to do with it.

 

[Swerpipe]

Elite Sim???

T-1 GUY,

If you are looking for the Elite 7.X simulator on the PC, I live in Los Angeles and I have it at home. If you are in the area PM me and I'll set you up. I've done that for other guys at other airlines. Didn't know that Airtrtran used it.

 

[five-o]

AIR Inc.

It has been stated time and time again that there are three different ways you can get your resume included in the mile-high stack at AirTran, two of which might actually put them on top.

1) Have an AirTran pilot walk your resume in with a letter of recommendation.

2) Attend a job fair like AIR Inc, Women in Aviation, or Organization of Black Airline Pilots (OBAP) - I think these are the only three going these days.

3) Send it in yourself - mail, fax, e-mail (which is always full), by carrier pigeon - it doesn't really matter b/c these resumes are almost certainly the last to be reviewed.

I helped at one of the recent job fairs where Jill Nidiffer said that of the people they interviewed that week, 1/2 had recommendations, 1/2 went to a job fair - meaning no one just sent it in and got a call.

Our HR department is admittedly overwhelmed with resumes and the best way to keep things somewhat organized is to sort them in some fashion - these three ways seem to be the method of choice.

As a person who assists occasionally at job fairs, I know that the people who meet prospects at the job fairs are conducting a mini-interview and are helping to "screen" the resumes just a bit more. Even though we do not have the final say-so in who gets an interview, we do count towards what resume gets reviewed first.

So... in other words, it's still like playing the lottery - you gotta play to win!

Best of Luck to all of you job seekers!