AirTran, are you now ready to consider ALPA?

[Kharma Police]

I feel that the company is obviously going to try to get the NMB to release us. Do you think the NPA has the ability and more importantly the resources to handle a possible strike? If we do go on strike what kind of strike benefits will the NPA provide?

I know many of you have understandably strong feelings against ALPA, but I want you to consider (like I have) how things were at your former ALPA carrier to the current state of the NPA. We can't get a grievance settled in under two years. We have leaders calling the cops to settle a little office cat fight. While the NPA is worried about fostering “good will”, the company laughs at us while they use our contract for toilet paper. I feel, if your back is put against the wall (a'la Rich M) you are on your own.

It's time to get a team of professionals (that don’t fly airplanes) that know and understand what we are up against, some national oversight to keep on eye on what our dues money is being used for and a return of our hostage and furloughed pilots.

 

[j41driver]

I'd certainly consider any alternative at to the NPA at this point.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

How about no union at all!

 

[easydoesit]

Yeah we'll see how that will work out for you in ten years.

Right now I would rather have no union at all than have the NPA. It is a pitiful waste of my money. The NPA tries to play "this little piggy went to market" while the rest of us want to stand up for ourselves and our career.

We need a backbone and until that happens we will continue to get beatings.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah it was 20-26 months at my previous carrier for a grievance and that was ALPA..??

Say you vote ALPA in--who will run for local office? The same group of people !! Lets look at John Prater, he has really stuck it to the airlines, even CAL???? Ask the CAL guys???

 

[Ty Webb]

The NPA has run its course. It's time to take this to the next level.

The guys that are the most against ALPA (well, the second "most against ALPA" ) are the guys that got hosed during a merger (TWA).

Well, the way we're going, we're not going to make it to the merger, so pick your poison.

Ty

 

[carl p]

It's time.

Ask yourself who the company would vote for, if they had a vote? I've been ALPA and it would be an improvement. That said, this pilot group still must grow a sac!


(AT club 169)

 

[Captain Jeff]

It is time for a change. Alpa, teamsters, anyone..... I will vote for anyone at this point. I hope that ALPA would would be the best choice since it would piss off the scabs.

 

[SkiFishFly]

If the company does ask to be released and the NMB says yes - then what can the company do as far as our current contract? Do they get to impose whatever they want?

 

[Citrusflyer]

I'm done...the NPA = No union.......

 

[Captjiggles]

What about Teamsters?

 

[OnTheDole]

The guys that are the most against ALPA (well, the second "most against ALPA" ) are the guys that got hosed during a merger (TWA).

Ty

Though I wasn't TWA, I was AWA and I know what its like being ALPA's red-headed step child and I can tell you I would rather go into a merger without a union than with ALPA again. If whats best for Praters pocket is not whats best for you then you WILL get the shaft. Go to teamsters or somebody that will give you a fighting chance in a merger with these pilot groups that really believe they are the gods of aviation...

 

[400ADude]

What merger are you guys talking about?

 

[Mooneymite]

I've been an ALPA pilot.
I've been a Teamster pilot.
I've been an independent union pilot.
I've been a pilot with no representation at all.

The only things that makes a difference are the resolve of the pilot group and its local leadership.

God and all his angels can't effect change without the undivided unity of the membership. Membership loyalty, resolve and committment are the only currency worth a cent at the bargaining table. ALPA, IBT and independent unions can't do it without the membership.

It's been said before and it's so true: Hang together or get hanged separately.

Some of the comments on FI indicate that pilots are their own worst enemy. Divided we fall.

Mooneymite

 

[XBOEINGDRVR]

What about getting back ATPA (Airtran pilots ass.)???

 

[Kharma Police]

What merger are you guys talking about?

It's a secret.........

 

[OurMoney1]

Fools amongst us.....

What a fool.....wanna play 52 pick-up?

As if ALPA will be able to change your destiny.

ALPA is not the answer, Prater is another phony, dont get sucked in believing they will deliver.

Bottom line; same whore/different dress.

Go it alone, and come out stronger in the end. Questions?? Just ask an Airways/Cactus driver what ALPA has done for them.

 

[Lear70]

If the company does ask to be released and the NMB says yes - then what can the company do as far as our current contract? Do they get to impose whatever they want?

If the Mediator says yes, then we (Management and the pilots) are released into a 30 day cooling off period. You can still negotiate during this, but I doubt the company would do much.

At the end of the 30 days, management is free to impose its last offer which, currently, is T.A. 2. Nothing else that I'm aware of has actually be put on the table as an "offered contract".

However, if Management takes the position that the concessionary package the NPA BoD rightfully voted down is their last offer, and the NMB agrees, then the company can impose the concessionary offer.

The pilots, during that cooling off period, would have to take a strike vote IF they wanted to engage in self-help at the end of the 30-day cooling off period, and would be free to strike when management imposes the last contract offer. The NPA BoD would have to approve a strike vote and the strike vote would have to pass by a majority.

The furloughed pilots would be able to vote on it, and I think we know how many would probably vote YES to a strike. Add that to everyone else who is hopping mad right now, and you might have a successful strike vote.

I don't know the status of SPC preparedness at the moment, or how the last Wilson Polling data went in regards to strike vote authorization. We also don't know IF that is the company's plan this week OR if the mediator is in the frame of mind to allow it. All we know is the company formally requested a one-day meeting which, arguably, only has one interpretation right now.

Methinks the company is betting on the poor performance the past two quarters and the furloughs to scare people, along with the discord in the union and believes there will be a lack of ability to lead a successful strike. I think they're wrong, just as they were on T.A.'s 1 and 2, and I also believe that, with oil down and revenue up, that the rest of the year will be better, and that management wants to do this before things turn for positive financially, but the company seems to have their own ideas about reality.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Bottom line...when your elected reps go to talk to management, they look over the shoulders of your reps to see how many pilots are standing behind them...if they don't see a large number of pilots...then they just laugh at your reps for even wasting their time.

think a new set of wings on your lapel and an expensive magazine subscription will help?

Sounds to me like the rank and file is at fault here...sure, maybe a vocal few want more form thier union...but the sad reality is...the vast majority are too scared ( or don't care enough) to stand up against the management.

ALPA won't cure that....seen any examples of John Prater's "Taking it BacK" campaign yet?

 

[Yuppyguppy]

I don't know about Prater...what about Wallach at UAL...were not taking their ******************** and it's gonna get even more fun! Go visit Glenns website and take a look at the banner we flew. Hey Glenn and Pete...F. UCK YOU

 

[SkiFishFly]

If the Mediator says yes, then we (Management and the pilots) are released into a 30 day cooling off period. You can still negotiate during this, but I doubt the company would do much.

At the end of the 30 days, management is free to impose its last offer which, currently, is T.A. 2. Nothing else that I'm aware of has actually be put on the table as an "offered contract".

However, if Management takes the position that the concessionary package the NPA BoD rightfully voted down is their last offer, and the NMB agrees, then the company can impose the concessionary offer.

The pilots, during that cooling off period, would have to take a strike vote IF they wanted to engage in self-help at the end of the 30-day cooling off period, and would be free to strike when management imposes the last contract offer. The NPA BoD would have to approve a strike vote and the strike vote would have to pass by a majority.

The furloughed pilots would be able to vote on it, and I think we know how many would probably vote YES to a strike. Add that to everyone else who is hopping mad right now, and you might have a successful strike vote.

I don't know the status of SPC preparedness at the moment, or how the last Wilson Polling data went in regards to strike vote authorization. We also don't know IF that is the company's plan this week OR if the mediator is in the frame of mind to allow it. All we know is the company formally requested a one-day meeting which, arguably, only has one interpretation right now.

Methinks the company is betting on the poor performance the past two quarters and the furloughs to scare people, along with the discord in the union and believes there will be a lack of ability to lead a successful strike. I think they're wrong, just as they were on T.A.'s 1 and 2, and I also believe that, with oil down and revenue up, that the rest of the year will be better, and that management wants to do this before things turn for positive financially, but the company seems to have their own ideas about reality.

I feel like the "proposal" the company is going to have at the upcoming meeting will be our current contract cut to pieces with lots of concessions. If the union looks at it and says "no way" and then the company asks to be released and the NMB says OK - does that mean the company can impose what they threw on the table at the last meeting? That hardly seems appropriate.

 

[Max Powers]

If the company does ask to be released and the NMB says yes - then what can the company do as far as our current contract? Do they get to impose whatever they want?

Once we also agree to be released; then the 30 day cool off begins.....This is where we have the maximum amount of leverage(actually this is the only place we have leverage in this horrible enviroment) and is the only point at which we can effectively negotiate.......Especially since the NMB is republican controlled......3 people sit on the NMB board 2 are elected by the President and his Admin the other from the minority party therefore it has a ridiculous lean towards corporate america and the lone pro-union NMB board member can not out vote the two other guys.

After 30 days and with no agreement in place the company can impose anything they want on us BUT we can STRIKE AirTran.

Don't be too hard on the NPA we have a bunch of people that work here that simply don't understand how a UNION works. I hear lots of dissent but we need to stay united to make it to the 30 day cooling off period. Historically nothing gets done until the 30 day period begins. Our goal should be to make it to the 30 day cool off!!!!! Mem-rat is a silly diversion that uninformed people pushed. Every union must have the power to make decision or they will not be taken seriously in any negotiations.

 

[Max Powers]

Lear I think they have the legal right to impose anything after 30 day period?

 

[stlflyguy]

Go on, join ALPA. Prater needs some more legal defense money!

stlflyguy
(former TWA)

 

[Max Powers]

Go on, join ALPA. Prater needs some more legal defense money!

stlflyguy
(former TWA)

Didn't your elected officials agree to screw the junior guy, so they could keep their job? Seems like next time we all vote we should pay attention to our elected officials seniority and make sure there is a healthy balance of senior along with junior.

 

[stlflyguy]

Didn't your elected officials agree to screw the junior guy, so they could keep their job? Seems like next time we all vote we should pay attention to our elected officials seniority and make sure there is a healthy balance of senior along with junior.

Uh, no. ALPA NATIONAL came this close to getting the American pilots back into the fold. Then the TWA merger was announced. Do you think ALPA National used "the strength of the largest pilot union" to fairly represent the TWA pilots?

C'mon...I know you can do it....!

stlflyguy

 

[PCL_128]

What about Teamsters?

I'd rather be gang raped in prison than become a Teamster. Most corrupt and useless organization in existence. No thanks.

Yes to ALPA!

 

[Max Powers]

Uh, no. ALPA NATIONAL came this close to getting the American pilots back into the fold. Then the TWA merger was announced. Do you think ALPA National used "the strength of the largest pilot union" to fairly represent the TWA pilots?

C'mon...I know you can do it....!

stlflyguy

So your elected officials said no. And ALPA refused to help even though your Elected union leaders refused to any agreement. In other words APA forced this on you so shouldn't you be blaming them and not ALPA? I guess I don't get who and why your mad at.

I'm NOT doubting you all got the shaft but why is ALPA fully to blame?

 

[freightdogfred]

I'd rather be gang raped in prison than become a Teamster.

Hmmm....I'll think I'll take the teamsters, myself.
See ya round the cellblock.

 

[Lear70]

Hmmm....I'll think I'll take the teamsters, myself.
See ya round the cellblock.

You know, I was kind of thinking about saying something to the same effect, but I have no knowledge of PCL's extracurricular interests...

I'm just kidding, man, I don't like the idea of Teamsters, either, but it was an easy shot...