AirTran announces Detroit

[General Lee]

De-toilet??? Yeah right...and the "ATL" is a whole lot better...give me a call when you file CH11...we'll put you to work in the Ford F-150 plant in River Rouge.

Here's the app. ---> www.ford.com

What? Yeah ok there chief. I am glad I can go work for Ford. Can't wait. Hey, they have a Ford Taurus plant right below 26R at ATL, so that will be closer. And you think De-toilet is better than ATL? What you smoking dumba$$? You obviously are flying RJs out of DTW. That makes sense now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

You obviously are flying RJs out of DTW. That makes sense now.

Come on General, I fly RJs out of DTW and I've got more sense than that. Not all of us De-toilet RJ drivers are that bad.

 

[717capt]

320AV8R,

The moves by NW were nothing but predatory... period, end of sentence.. Ok.. they were predatory, or filling in a void, or fleet allocation that makes sense, call it what you want.... the bottom line is so what? NW has just as much right to go into what ever market they choose too just as AirTran has a right to start service to DTW..

I remember about 5 years ago when AirTran started service to MSP from MDW. NW at the time was running 3 or 4 DC-9's on the same market... After we announced MDW to MSP NW immediately doubled the number of flights from MDW-MSP, they threw in a mix of A319's/320's and on the heavy days even threw in a couple of 757's..
We'll AirTran started crying predatory moves on the part of NW (something I've never been a huge fan of by the way, crying to the Gov't for help), and NW stated simply we did a schedule adjustment to meet market demand.. We'll that seemed to satisfy the Gov't...
Then when AirTran started ATL-MSP service, wouldn't you know NW again doubled the number of flights and threw in bigger a/c.. This time the Gov't was watching (again not a big fan of this) and told NW to reduce the flights or they would be sued...
Granted that was different management at NW 5 years ago but the corporate philosphy has not changed... We know this because our very own Joe Leonard was a senior VP a NW for a while...

Just thinking out loud... no flame intended

 

[320AV8R]

320AV8R,

The moves by NW were nothing but predatory... period, end of sentence.. Ok.. they were predatory, or filling in a void, or fleet allocation that makes sense, call it what you want.... the bottom line is so what? NW has just as much right to go into what ever market they choose too just as AirTran has a right to start service to DTW..

I remember about 5 years ago when AirTran started service to MSP from MDW. NW at the time was running 3 or 4 DC-9's on the same market... After we announced MDW to MSP NW immediately doubled the number of flights from MDW-MSP, they threw in a mix of A319's/320's and on the heavy days even threw in a couple of 757's..
We'll AirTran started crying predatory moves on the part of NW (something I've never been a huge fan of by the way, crying to the Gov't for help), and NW stated simply we did a schedule adjustment to meet market demand.. We'll that seemed to satisfy the Gov't...
Then when AirTran started ATL-MSP service, wouldn't you know NW again doubled the number of flights and threw in bigger a/c.. This time the Gov't was watching (again not a big fan of this) and told NW to reduce the flights or they would be sued...
Granted that was different management at NW 5 years ago but the corporate philosphy has not changed... We know this because our very own Joe Leonard was a senior VP a NW for a while...

Just thinking out loud... no flame intended

No flame taken.....

Their actions on the MSP-ATL route were the same as DAL, in their response to Jetblue entering the ATL market.

If someone jumps in their hub.......I guess they figure they have the right to give them a run for their money.

320AV8R

 

[GogglesPisano]

And let's not forget the response to Flyi"s LAN-IAD route.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Am I missing something? Why the hell is STL so far down on the list for AirTran? I think we (STL-ATL commuters) need to form a coalition and march on Joe Leonard's office. We need some flights here in the STL! Every Delta flight is completely full and the AA Connection RJ's are almost always full. We fly to Moline and Bloomington, but not STL - I still don't get it.

Simple, STL is too expensive.

 

[Jetjockey]

Just for the record. NWA announced major expansion in IND prior to ATA announcing the scaled back operations in IND. Once the new CEO at ATA saw what they were facing, it became obvious to him that ATA did not have the deep pockets to fight a turf war with NWA. That scale back move alone expidited 100 furloughs at ATA. I'd love to get hired by AirTran, and fly a few DTW-ATL legs with a big grin on my face. I'm sure most would agree that NWA is very predatory indeed. Like I said, the hunter has become the hunted.

 

[jetdawg]

long but a good read

this is a pretty good story about one guys position on this whole situation

Such an interesting spat between AirTran and NWA. I’m going to add my commentary on the subject. So much to discuss, where to begin?

I guess I’ll start with a little history. NWA has three US hubs in Memphis, Minneapolis and Detroit. In Memphis, AirTran has a minor presence and competes with 5 daily flights to Atlanta. AirTran has never added flights to Orlando or BWI as I thought they might or should. They are the only low fare airline in Memphis. In Minneapolis, AirTran now has 4 daily flights to Atlanta and 1 daily to Orlando. Just before AirTran announced they were entering MSP, NWA announced a HUGE increase in seats to Atlanta running a bunch of RJs down there. That forced AirTran to quickly change the route to MSP-MDW with continuing service to ATL. Ultimately that route did not work out well as ATA started MSP-MDW and had all of the connecting feed through MDW to support it. Ultimately, AirTran shifted to MSP-ATL when I presume NWA took some seats out of the route. AirTran has never entered Detroit until now. Previously, I believe it was AirTran’s plan to bracket the Motor City in Flint and Toledo, similar to LUV bracketing Boston with Providence, RI and Manchester, NH. As we all know, Toledo support was poor and AirTran pulled out.

AirTran has done extremely well in FNT over the years, second probably only to CAK in the Midwest as far as loads and yields go. At first, NWA let this go. Recently NWA has become aggressive in this market, matching AirTran routes to Orlando, Tampa, Ft. Lauderdale and Las Vegas. This forced AirTran to pull out of the FNT-TPA market and move into the FNT-Ft. Meyers market which they announced last week.

NWA should have learned from Delta’s mistake, because it’s going to be as costly to NWA as it has been to Delta. Several years ago, AirTran was flying to secondary markets to avoid taking on Delta directly and “fly under the radar.” When Delta added flights to CAK from ATL, AirTran said enough. I remember the conference call where Joe or Stan simply said, if Delta is going to come into our secondary markets, then we’re going to go into their primary markets where the number of fliers are greater. After than AirTran entered DEN, LAX, LAS, SFO, and other larger markets. Delta has lost millions in revenue from the competition on these major routes. If only they’d let AirTran have their secondary markets.

Fast forward to today. I couldn’t believe this morning’s announcement of new service to Detroit. That wasn’t near my top 10 list of cities to expand to. I think it had everything to do with AirTran’s response to Delta, which is, if NWA is going to try to knock AirTran off some secondary markets, then NWA is going to pay with depressed yields out of their larger markets. Realize that NWA has beefed up service in Indy and Milwaukee as well, two cities AirTran has tried to expand aggressively in. It is going to get ugly for NWA because AirTran has a strong enough route structure in place, that if the prize is big enough, and Detroit is, AirTran can stay in the game a long time.

NWA’s response today was telling of a vengeful company that was completely blindsided. The angry senior execs probably woke the VP of network planning up at 5:31 AM and said “get back at AirTran.” Their press release announcing the new FNT-Ft Meyers route, to compete directly with AirTran had to be concocted today. The quote was from the vice president of network planning & revenue management. No one from the FNT airport was quoted, since I’m sure no one at FNT was involved in the process, unlike AirTran’s announcement which had quotes from two top Bishop International execs about how they were looking forward to AirTran’s service.

So what’s the next shot? There’s some expansion that I’ve thought for a long time would make sense for AirTran and would really stick it to NWA at the same time. I believe AirTran should start twice daily flights from MSP to BOS and a third flight that goes MSP-CAK-BOS, that ties in with a current CAK-BOS route. The MSP-CAK route should be timed as well to offer MSP-CAK-LGA and connections to Florida. Currently in MSP, the only low cost carrier is Sun Country and their only flight to the northeast is into JFK. In my opinion, BOS is still up for grabs, until JetBlue builds up their operation there. It will take JetBlue awhile as they concurrently are starting a little battle with Continental at Newark. This would drop prices on two major business markets MSP-BOS and MSP-LGA and help shore up the CAK-BOS and CAK-LGA routes. This would be a less than subtle message to NWA to leave AirTran alone on secondary markets or prepare to have the fortresses invaded. I believe NWA has made a costly mistake in FNT and it’s going to cost them millions.

As always, just my 0.02

 

[Jetjockey]

I'm picturing this mega-rumble wrestling match. Legacy vs. LCC's. Kinda like a cage match. Jet-Blue vs. Continental, followed by Northwest vs. AirTran, American vs. Southwest. Then all the remaining carriers get into the ring. What a mess, the carnage. Last carrier standing gets the pile of cash! Picture Herb, Lorenzo, and Crandall in the front row munching on popcorn watching this all unfold. SUNDAY! SUNDAY! SUNDAAAAAAYYYYYYYYYY!!!

 

[redflyer65]

Sorry guys, I don't see Airtran's entrance into DTW that big of a deal. There is already Spirit and Southwest. NWA could care less about vacation travel to Florida, so Airtran can battle with Spirit and Delta for those dollars. Are people really going to go to Atlanta to connect to the northeast or west if there is a direct flight for a few dollars more? I don't see it happening. Especially if they already have a Worldperks card.