AirTran announces Detroit

[PCL_128]

320AV8R, I certainly see what you're getting at here, but do you honestly think that NWA won't file before October? It seems inevitable to me. In fact, I doubt it will come much later than the first week in September.

 

[Jetjockey]

Why does that make you glad?

After watching NWA go after Midwest when they were weak. Watching NWA announce a major expansion in IND when ATA was weak and on the ropes. Now they get a small taste of thier medicine. I guess that's what makes me glad.

 

[General Lee]

Fletch.....before you said:


You have yet to provide any proof that NWA said this.


Now you say:

Ahhhhh....those "experts" and their spectulation. The same ones that said UAL and USAir were DOA 2 years ago.

320AV8R

Hey, I am in the same boat as you are, and it was tough to see it, but I would rather them file before Oct 17th and have the same protection United has, then to try to avoid it and then have to go in with more restrictive rules later.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[TV9Driver]

Am I missing something? Why the hell is STL so far down on the list for AirTran? I think we (STL-ATL commuters) need to form a coalition and march on Joe Leonard's office. We need some flights here in the STL! Every Delta flight is completely full and the AA Connection RJ's are almost always full. We fly to Moline and Bloomington, but not STL - I still don't get it.

 

[320AV8R]

320AV8R, I certainly see what you're getting at here, but do you honestly think that NWA won't file before October? It seems inevitable to me. In fact, I doubt it will come much later than the first week in September.

PCL-

Trying to predict when / if these guys will file is like trying to predict the stock market. There are a lot of moving pieces.

---the Pension legislation is critical, without that, they'll file.

---the AMFA thing WILL be settled....around the 20th; they can run the place with the replacements if need be.

---the F/As are anybody's guess. If the walk with AMFA....they file; if not, they too will have a new contract.....one way or another.

---and then there's gas......

The guys running the show have no "CRM skills", and they didn't get to where they are because of their good looks. They are watching the cash balance daily. Certain financial agreements require a certain level of liquidity. When they feel the time is right.......they file.

However, it's been stated over and over that they will avoid CH 11 to the max extent possible. It would seem logical to file before Oct 11th, but then I have been fooled before.

320AV8R

 

[fletch717]

We need to rapidly achieve at least $1.1 billion in labor cost savings and resolve our pension plan challenges by freezing our defined benefit pension plans and obtaining federal legislation that addresses existing problems in the pension laws. Failing to do so will force Northwest to consider other alternatives, including filing under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code,” said Doug Steenland, president and chief executive officer.

There you go av8, copied off the northwest investor relations link. this is from the second qtr earnings press release. There's your proof, your own CEO said it now get off me.

 

[320AV8R]

After watching NWA go after Midwest when they were weak. Watching NWA announce a major expansion in IND when ATA was weak and on the ropes. Now they get a small taste of thier medicine. I guess that's what makes me glad.

JJ-

I'm glad you're glad.....

The moves weren't as predatory as you think, they were defensive, in respect to the MSP and DTW hubs..

They saw the room for additional flying in MKE and IND, and wanted to "fill the gap" before someone else did. In MKE they saw the opportunity for increased flying; it was not their intent to take over MKE. Midwest dominates there, and probably will continue to do so. ATA scaled down their flying in IND, and they moved in to fill the void. They wanted to seize the opportunity before someone else did.

This happened years ago in BWI.....USAir pulled time out and.......Herb came in to fill the void. They saw an opportunity and acted upon it. Herb is good at that, and at least he's making money.

320AV8R

 

[320AV8R]

We need to rapidly achieve at least $1.1 billion in labor cost savings and resolve our pension plan challenges by freezing our defined benefit pension plans and obtaining federal legislation that addresses existing problems in the pension laws. Failing to do so will force Northwest to consider other alternatives, including filing under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code,” said Doug Steenland, president and chief executive officer.

There you go av8, copied off the northwest investor relations link. this is from the second qtr earnings press release. There's your proof, your own CEO said it now get off me.

Fletch-

I never said they weren't talking about filing CH 11. Steenland says that every day......he has 3 unions in negotiations. He said it on CNBC and Capitol Hill. He wants to make it sound bad during negotiations.

Also, that's on the website, because of SEC laws, etc...so we won't have another ENRON scenario. They must disclose financial info, like the possibility of CH 11, to their shareholders, creditors, etc....

This thread is dragging on because you stated NWA said it was going to file in Sept. I asked you to substatiate you claim, which you have not.

I am not trying to give you a hard time, I was just trying to clarify something you said. I was in no way trying to offend you.

This is really too much typing in one day.....how about we agree that neither of us knows when or if they will file ?

320AV8R

 

[House_X]

De-toilet is a great town. Long layovers on the "8 mile road" gave me a chance to try impromptu rapping on the mic. You got one chance. Are you gonna blow it?



Bye Bye--General Lee

De-toilet??? Yeah right...and the "ATL" is a whole lot better...give me a call when you file CH11...we'll put you to work in the Ford F-150 plant in River Rouge.

Here's the app. ---> www.ford.com

 

[PCL_128]

De-toilet??? Yeah right...and the "ATL" is a whole lot better...give me a call when you file CH11...we'll put you to work in the Ford F-150 plant in River Rouge.

Here's the app. ---> www.ford.com

I work in DTW and live in ATL. I love Atlanta, but you couldn't pay me enough to live in De-toilet. You've just got to get out of College Park and you'll find that the Atlanta area is really very nice.

 

[General Lee]

De-toilet??? Yeah right...and the "ATL" is a whole lot better...give me a call when you file CH11...we'll put you to work in the Ford F-150 plant in River Rouge.

Here's the app. ---> www.ford.com

What? Yeah ok there chief. I am glad I can go work for Ford. Can't wait. Hey, they have a Ford Taurus plant right below 26R at ATL, so that will be closer. And you think De-toilet is better than ATL? What you smoking dumba$$? You obviously are flying RJs out of DTW. That makes sense now.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[PCL_128]

You obviously are flying RJs out of DTW. That makes sense now.

Come on General, I fly RJs out of DTW and I've got more sense than that. Not all of us De-toilet RJ drivers are that bad.

 

[717capt]

320AV8R,

The moves by NW were nothing but predatory... period, end of sentence.. Ok.. they were predatory, or filling in a void, or fleet allocation that makes sense, call it what you want.... the bottom line is so what? NW has just as much right to go into what ever market they choose too just as AirTran has a right to start service to DTW..

I remember about 5 years ago when AirTran started service to MSP from MDW. NW at the time was running 3 or 4 DC-9's on the same market... After we announced MDW to MSP NW immediately doubled the number of flights from MDW-MSP, they threw in a mix of A319's/320's and on the heavy days even threw in a couple of 757's..
We'll AirTran started crying predatory moves on the part of NW (something I've never been a huge fan of by the way, crying to the Gov't for help), and NW stated simply we did a schedule adjustment to meet market demand.. We'll that seemed to satisfy the Gov't...
Then when AirTran started ATL-MSP service, wouldn't you know NW again doubled the number of flights and threw in bigger a/c.. This time the Gov't was watching (again not a big fan of this) and told NW to reduce the flights or they would be sued...
Granted that was different management at NW 5 years ago but the corporate philosphy has not changed... We know this because our very own Joe Leonard was a senior VP a NW for a while...

Just thinking out loud... no flame intended

 

[320AV8R]

320AV8R,

The moves by NW were nothing but predatory... period, end of sentence.. Ok.. they were predatory, or filling in a void, or fleet allocation that makes sense, call it what you want.... the bottom line is so what? NW has just as much right to go into what ever market they choose too just as AirTran has a right to start service to DTW..

I remember about 5 years ago when AirTran started service to MSP from MDW. NW at the time was running 3 or 4 DC-9's on the same market... After we announced MDW to MSP NW immediately doubled the number of flights from MDW-MSP, they threw in a mix of A319's/320's and on the heavy days even threw in a couple of 757's..
We'll AirTran started crying predatory moves on the part of NW (something I've never been a huge fan of by the way, crying to the Gov't for help), and NW stated simply we did a schedule adjustment to meet market demand.. We'll that seemed to satisfy the Gov't...
Then when AirTran started ATL-MSP service, wouldn't you know NW again doubled the number of flights and threw in bigger a/c.. This time the Gov't was watching (again not a big fan of this) and told NW to reduce the flights or they would be sued...
Granted that was different management at NW 5 years ago but the corporate philosphy has not changed... We know this because our very own Joe Leonard was a senior VP a NW for a while...

Just thinking out loud... no flame intended

No flame taken.....

Their actions on the MSP-ATL route were the same as DAL, in their response to Jetblue entering the ATL market.

If someone jumps in their hub.......I guess they figure they have the right to give them a run for their money.

320AV8R

 

[GogglesPisano]

And let's not forget the response to Flyi"s LAN-IAD route.