Airtran and Frontier, running on fumes?

[Ty Webb]

....General Lee's not that bad......:laugh:

No . . . . I think this board would definitely lose something were the General to stop posting.

To repeat the obvious . . . Guys, we're all pilots. We just happen to work for other carriers. Let's not lose sight of the obvious.

I wish all of our brothers well- period. If you think you're operating in a vacuum, you're either very new, or very misguided. .. . not to say that some aren't misguided, or misinformed individuals out there, but those basic truths should remain obvious . . .

Unless, of course, you're a hamster-hiding, pillow-biting Nancy-boy, like Rezolution, but that's an aberration . . . . .:erm: Of course, I would still stand shoulder=to-shoulder with him, but that's about the only posture I would be comfortable with, given his . . . proclivities.

 

[General Lee]

No . . . . I think this board would definitely lose something were the General to stop posting.

To repeat the obvious . . . Guys, we're all pilots. We just happen to work for other carriers. Let's not lose sight of the obvious.

I wish all of our brothers well- period. If you think you're operating in a vacuum, you're either very new, or very misguided. .. . not to say that some aren't misguided, or misinformed individuals out there, but those basic truths should remain obvious . . .

Unless, of course, you're a hamster-hiding, pillow-biting Nancy-boy, like Rezolution, but that's an aberration . . . . .:erm: Of course, I would still stand shoulder=to-shoulder with him, but that's about the only posture I would be comfortable with, given his . . . proclivities.

Thanks Ty. I actually think I should have my own category called "Ask General Lee." I could answer questions about a whole range of topics, including: airline interviews, love life, how to brown nose, male enhancement, exploring the female psyche, driving an orange car, living in Rio, living in Vienna, how to comment on ASA/COMAIR/SKYWEST, how to avoid LBB, how to not hold a grudge towards regional pilots, and how to copy and paste airline articles.

I think it could be a possible revenue generator for this website.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Dude]

I'd donate a buck or two for the General only forum. Can I be a contributor on LBB? If you can't get them to avoid LBB, then I can help them enjoy LBB. I know the way to campus. As an alum, I can get to campus; I just can't get to anywhere specific on campus!

 

[General Lee]

I'd donate a buck or two for the General only forum. Can I be a contributor on LBB? If you can't get them to avoid LBB, then I can help them enjoy LBB. I know the way to campus. As an alum, I can get to campus; I just can't get to anywhere specific on campus!

Deal, you can contribute.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Now that is funny.

I think that you will see AAI have their own terminal on the south complex in the next few years. They have been moving dirt between 28 and 27 L for some time.
The controllers say it is a new terminal and it is NOT for Delta. That is where they are going to find space.

 

[PCL_128]

An airframe mfg like Embraer could offer to take the 717 leases off their hands, in exchange for a nice fat order book of $95./hr 100 seaters.

Can't happen unless we fold like a cheap suit. Under the current contract, the EMBs would pay the same as the current airframes.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Now that is funny.

I think that you will see AAI have their own terminal on the south complex in the next few years. They have been moving dirt between 28 and 27 L for some time.
The controllers say it is a new terminal and it is NOT for Delta. That is where they are going to find space.

Hmmm...I wonder if SWA would be interested in coming to ATL.

 

[Lear70]

Can't happen unless we fold like a cheap suit. Under the current contract, the EMBs would pay the same as the current airframes.

Correct. Section 1, Scope.

Any new aircraft entered into service will be negotiated as to which CATEGORY it falls into: SNB, LNB, or WB. There IS no other option allowed for in the current contract.

The 717's and 737-700's fall into the SNB range. Interestingly enough, 737-400's fall into the LNB category. Go figure.

The EMB would fall into the SNB category BUT, under the existing Agreement, would pay THE SAME as the 717 or 737's.

The proposed T.A. tried to take that away, and the existing NPA Leadership never said a THING about it. When we tried in negotiations to get rid of the new EMB pay scale that was proposed, the company countered with removing that section of Scope that said they'd have to negotiate only a category, and changed it into negotiating an entirely new WAGE.

In other words, they knew EXACTLY what they had asked for with the EMB rates, knew EXACTLY what would happen if they put them into service now, and wanted out of that deal.

The only reason to push so hard for it is because they have a plan that includes either EMB 175/195 aircraft or Q-400's. Period. They stonewalled HARD, which threw up enough red flags for everyone to take notice.

SECTION 1 - SCOPE and SUCCESSORSHIP is the #1 priority, QOL (Scheduling, etc) is #2, Pay is #3, Retirement & Insurance is #4. Everything else is gravy...

Keep your eyes on the ball, folks.

 

[Lear70]

That was pure genius, DUDE. Anyway, I do think Airtran is competition. They have driven our widebodies out of FLA, and off to new lands that their 737-700s cannot touch. That has increased the need for pilots, and in reality helped us focus on better yeilds on the INTL side. They have a good product, with XM radio etc, and have kept us on our toes. Our krappy RJ product has suffered against their 717s, and that will hopefully spur our management into finding an adequate 100 seater, or just order more 737-700s eventually.

That's probably the most you've ever said about both DAL and airTran in one paragraph that I can agree with.

Well-spoken.

As far as people keeping money in their pockets, as DUDE states, that may not be so obvious this Summer. Gas is on the high side for driving as well. People will likely fly and probably break even compared to driving across the country to see granny. And, something Airtran and the likes of SWA do not have, is INTL feed pumping in foreign currency that is higher than our dollar. Most legacies that have a great INTL presence will make more money by catering to the INTL pax. Our flights may not have as many Americans going to Europe and back----rather Europeans coming here and then going back. They think fares are a steal probably with the higher Euro. Americans would be shocked, and Europeans would be pleasantly surprised. That's the way it is when we have an economic downturn. Southwest and Airtran cannot hunt for that Euro traffic. At least SWA has those hedges. Good for them.

Again, very true.

I was hoping the 757 carriers running all-business-class for last-minute Y-fare coach costs would stick around, bringing a lot of international feed into the U.S. then able to jump onto one of our planes to get them other places, thereby taking advantage of the high Euro or Pound to U.S. conversion rates as much as we could.

Unfortunately, that hasn't materialized, and the stark truth is that carriers that have shifted to a lot of international feed and shed a lot of their domestically-unprofitable RJ's, etc, will likely fare the best of the Legacies as a whole new segment of international leisure travelers can afford U.S. vacations for the first time in years as their currency spends almost DOUBLE here in the U.S. what it does in Europe or Asia.

Question is, how much traffic will the LCC's be able to get from the Legacies? Will the Legacies smarten up and offer combined tickets at the same price an international Legacy / domestic LCC combo would be? If so, it's going to be a pretty difficult summer.

I'm predicting a 2nd and 3rd quarter loss for airTran followed by their normal 4th quarter profit for domestic holiday travel, then selling a couple airframes again at the end of the year, thereby giving airTran single-digit profits (in Millions) and retaining the ability to pay 1st quarter management bonuses again.

Send donations for free prognostications to the charity of your choice.

 

[Ty Webb]

Can't happen unless we fold like a cheap suit. Under the current contract, the EMBs would pay the same as the current airframes.

Oh . . . . I know, alright. . . .and so does every pilot who looked beyond the hourly pay rates.

It seems that the direction they were heading in was replacing the 717 fleet with a smaller fleet of EMB190's, plus outsourced 85-seaters and Q-400's. Under the terms of the failed TA, they could have operated like that with pilots on furlough . . . .

TW

 

[SkiFishFly]

Oh . . . . I know, alright. . . .and so does every pilot who looked beyond the hourly pay rates.

It seems that the direction they were heading in was replacing the 717 fleet with a smaller fleet of EMB190's, plus outsourced 85-seaters and Q-400's. Under the terms of the failed TA, they could have operated like that with pilots on furlough . . . .

TW

This is why we have to be careful and learn from the mistakes of other pilot groups. Number one priority is to keep all flying on AirTran seniority list.
Lear - thanks for staying in the game for all of us fellow pilots.

As to the 717 rumor - I heard they were trying to sell off the 717s that we own (8) while these aircraft still will fetch a decent price. Perhaps they don't see much of a market for those aircraft in a couple of years. This allows them to unload a future liability, control/reduce growth a bit and replace these aircraft with more efficient 737-700s.
This also puts the company in a position to trade in leases/transition to more 737s in the future.

 

[Murphy]

I'd donate a buck or two for the General only forum. Can I be a contributor on LBB? If you can't get them to avoid LBB, then I can help them enjoy LBB. I know the way to campus. As an alum, I can get to campus; I just can't get to anywhere specific on campus!

All threads lead to Lubbock.

 

[PCL_128]

Correct. Section 1, Scope.

Any new aircraft entered into service will be negotiated as to which CATEGORY it falls into: SNB, LNB, or WB. There IS no other option allowed for in the current contract.

The 717's and 737-700's fall into the SNB range. Interestingly enough, 737-400's fall into the LNB category. Go figure.

The EMB would fall into the SNB category BUT, under the existing Agreement, would pay THE SAME as the 717 or 737's.

The really beautiful thing is that the current agreement actually lists a few 100-seat aircraft specifically as SNBs. The F-100 and BAe-146 are both specifically listed, making it a slam-dunk in arbitration if they tried to claim that the current agreement doesn't envision 100-seat aircraft as SNBs. As long as we keep the current Section 4 language, we're golden on EMB compensation.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I'd donate a buck or two for the General only forum. Can I be a contributor on LBB? If you can't get them to avoid LBB, then I can help them enjoy LBB. I know the way to campus. As an alum, I can get to campus; I just can't get to anywhere specific on campus!

....do they have Nathan's in LBB?

 

[Max Powers]

Thanks Ty. I actually think I should have my own category called "Ask General Lee." I could answer questions about a whole range of topics, including: airline interviews, love life, how to brown nose, male enhancement, exploring the female psyche, driving an orange car, living in Rio, living in Vienna, how to comment on ASA/COMAIR/SKYWEST, how to avoid LBB, how to not hold a grudge towards regional pilots, and how to copy and paste airline articles.

I think it could be a possible revenue generator for this website.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I CAN JUST FEEL LOVE.....Awww shivvers all over.