Airplane advice please?

[PC12Cowboy]

PC12..without a doubt...its getting a new bigger engine and more fuel and going to 12K max gross with not a big structure change ...SO should make all of the requirements EASY....

 

[ATADave]

Thank you,

Fuel burn, range, TAS, useful load, and number of seats in the PC12 please? Also, with the engine up front, how do they compare in cabin noise to the twins?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

 

[G100driver]

Thank you,

Fuel burn, range, TAS, useful load, and number of seats in the PC12 please? Also, with the engine up front, how do they compare in cabin noise to the twins?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

If you lose an engine, that noise level is that of a glider (if you do not include the screams of terror) .... sorry I could not resist. It was an easy tee-up!

 

[CitationCapt]

Let's see, a 2,950' by 45' hard surfaced runway if I read you right. A 7 passenger aircraft with 90 minutes of fuel on the grass.

OK, envision a 2,950 foot wet runway 45 feet wide and maybe a gusty crosswind. That's a recipe for an accident. Has this prospective owner discussed this with their insuror? If an accident happens and the insuror finds out this after the fact, will they pay the claim? Look at the worst case scenario regardless of the aircraft, That's what we would do.

It seems that there are more charter passengers and owners wanting to fit a high performance aircraft into very risky situations, and this is where operators need to stand their ground.


CC

 

[G100driver]

Great post CC.

 

[AerroMatt]

Thank you,

Fuel burn, range, TAS, useful load, and number of seats in the PC12 please? Also, with the engine up front, how do they compare in cabin noise to the twins?

Thanks in advance,
Dave

I don't know about the new PC12. They are making a lot of changes with the bigger engine and GW increase. For older models, you can count on around 3700lb useful load. Most are configured with the 6 seat cabin with lav (a must on a 1400nm trip), but some newer ones have 2 extra seats that you can pop in and out in a few minutes. The example I saw recently was pretty tight in back. A few went to commuter operators with the 9 seat commuter configuration and no lav.

Figure on 65gph average burn for trips under 2hrs and maybe 60 on longer trips. Pilatus advertises 270kts top TAS but in reality you will only see that in winter ops in more northerly latitudes. 250 is a good planning figure year round. Cabin noise levels are very comfortable with the prop way out front. I routinely operate a PC12 out of 2500ft dirt strips at max gross at this time of year. Just make certain you trust your engine and mechanics with your life!

If you are thinking of ordering a new one, the backlog is about 2 years from the factory according to ASI Denver. With all the options/toys/whistles the bill for a new one is now closing in on $4 Million.

 

[AerroMatt]

...OK, envision a 2,950 foot wet runway 45 feet wide and maybe a gusty crosswind. That's a recipe for an accident. Has this prospective owner discussed this with their insuror? If an accident happens and the insuror finds out this after the fact, will they pay the claim? Look at the worst case scenario regardless of the aircraft, That's what we would do.

Excellent point, CC. Crosswind landings can be very interesting in the PC12 and are its Achellis Heel. More than once have I tried to twist the PCL off wishing I had differential thrust! The AFM says max demonstrated x-wind of 25kts with no flaps, if I recall correctly. I would not even attempt a 2950ft dry runway with more than about 15kts (max demonstrated x-wind with full flaps).

 

[ERJFO]

I think a good bet would be a PC-12... Here are the numbers:

TAKEOFF​

​

​

– Max. Takeoff Wt., ISA, SL
Takeoff Dist. Over 50-ft. Obstacle 2,650 ft.
(30 deg. flap)
Takeoff Ground Roll 1,650 ft.
(30 deg. flap)
Accelerate – Stop Distance 3,009 ft.
(30 deg. flap)​

CLIMB​

​

​

– Max. Takeoff Wt., ISA, SL
Rate Of Climb 1,575 ft/min​

CRUISE​

Maximum Cruise Speed 270 KTAS​

RANGE​

​

​

– One Pilot, 26,000 ft., NBAA IFR Res.​

Standard Executive Cargo​

Zero Passenger Maximum Range 1,781 NM 1,738 NM 1,804 NM
(Long Range Cruise)
Zero Passenger Maximum Range 1,501 NM 1,487 NM 1,507 NM
(High Speed Cruise)
Passenger Maximum Range 1,567 NM 1,635 NM 629 NM
(Long Range Cruise) 9 psgr. 6 psgr. 3,229 lb.
Passenger Maximum Range 1,394 NM 1,451 NM 577 NM
(High Speed Cruise) 9 psgr. 6 psgr. 3,229 lb.​

LANDING​

​

​

– Max. Landing Wt., ISA, SL
Landing Dist. Over 50 ft. Obstacle 1,830 ft.
(40 deg. flap, with reverse)
Landing Ground Roll 945 ft.
(40 deg. flap, with reverse)​

STALL SPEED​

​

​

– Max. Takeoff Wt., ISA, SL 66 KIAS
(Landing configuration)​

GLIDE RATIO​

​

​

16 : 1 (2.6 nm/1,000 ft.)​

 

[CitationCapt]

My point with a wet runway, (read contaminated runway) is to review the advisory data, which in the case of Citations, is in the back of the AFM. Look at the same for other aircraft, if available. Look at the dry runway distances, then look at the advisory data (not regulatory). You will be shocked at the takeoff and landing distances with various degrees of contamination, be it wet, standing water, slush, snow, packed snow, ice, etc. Then think about that 2,950 foot runway you plan to operate from. Go find a much longer and wider runway to operate the boss's aircraft from, or plan to divert to one if there is precipitation in the forecast.

CC

 

[ERJFO]

CC has a good point, the key to this "operation" is to have a good diversion field nearby with a car for the boss there. But that being said I think you could do this is a PC-12 with an experianced pilot or two.