************************* Airlines????

[temcgrew]

I love how people that have jobs because there company took flying from someone else, suddenly complain because they're loosing flying to someone else.

Spin it any way you want, if your company started a new airline and used it to get around your contract you'll be on here complaining as well.

then wait until the pilots try to shove their great jobs in your face while you take a pay cut or get furloughed.

Any time anyone says "a company took flying that belonged to someone else" is full of crap. We are all contract companies who compete with each other, the flip side of this is that TSH is competing with itself.

J41 ground school instructors teaching G.O.S. to G0jet pilots doesn't seem like two seperate companies to me.

 

[dardar]

The facts are the facts and there is nothing I can do about it. The fact is, TSA pilots did want it, but anyone who knows anything about NEGOTIATING knows that you just don't take the first offer given. This is why it is called negotiating.

Contrary to popular company propaganda, the flying wasn't offered to us 3 times.
It was ONCE and it really was a bad proposal, the counter offer from us was dumped in the garbage and there was no other proposal from the company to the pilots after that!

Anyone who knows anything about NEGOTIATING knows that you just don't turn don't an offer without some sort of threat. You can't just say "no", you have to say "If you don't give it to me my way then I'm going to screw you."

You guys didn't do anything of the sort to my knowledge. I don't know the whole story since I don't work there, but I fail to see how you guys negotiated with management other than complaining. Sure, a strike would have been illegal, but you know what? F@ck it! You guys could have quit when the flying was given away. There are much better companies out there.

You guys gave management NOTHING to lose by starting an alter ego, and now you want the rest of the pilot community to stand up for you by not taking a job. Real cowardly.

 

[arthompson]

Except in the cases where TSH is flying routes that were built by Air Wisconsin and were turned over to United as part of the UAX agreement. None of the routes that TSH flies were built by the hard work of TSH employees.

 

[temcgrew]

Anyone who knows anything about NEGOTIATING knows that you just don't turn don't an offer without some sort of threat. You can't just say "no", you have to say "If you don't give it to me my way then I'm going to screw you."

You guys didn't do anything of the sort to my knowledge. I don't know the whole story since I don't work there, but I fail to see how you guys negotiated with management other than complaining. Sure, a strike would have been illegal, but you know what? F@ck it! You guys could have quit when the flying was given away. There are much better companies out there.

You guys gave management NOTHING to lose by starting an alter ego, and now you want the rest of the pilot community to stand up for you by not taking a job. Real cowardly.

Whaa? O.K.?

Never mind

 

[temcgrew]

Except in the cases where TSH is flying routes that were built by Air Wisconsin and were turned over to United as part of the UAX agreement. None of the routes that TSH flies were built by the hard work of TSH employees.

And then AWAC bribes USair....blah blah blah, did AWAC start TSA to do that? G0jet bid on AWAC flying and if I remember right, they were backing up our efforts against the runaway shop.

 

[Dubya]

I love how people that have jobs because there company took flying from someone else, suddenly complain because they're loosing flying to someone else.

You must have been the star pupil in your 5th grade class.

It just slays me how unbelievably stupid some people here are.

W

 

[arthompson]

Like you? Hey I never claimed to be an english major.

 

[Dubya]

So you need to be an english major do discern the difference between "lose" and "loose". Yeah..i'm stupid.

W

 

[arthompson]

I misspelled an Fing word get over it.

 

[BoilerUP]

I might be a relatively new guy at AWAC, but I'm pretty sure the guys who lived in Chicago and Denver blame UAL and management in ATW for the whole United debacle, not any pilot group. If a contract had actually been signed, things might have been different.

What about Pinnacle taking Mesaba's flying? Or routes that NWA built with DC9s? Or Comair taking ASA's flying, or Chautauqua taking everybody's flying, and lets not forget about Skywest...

The AX flying was TWE. TWA was bought by AMR. Eagle didn't have the planes or the staff to instantly take that feed. *poof* American Connection.

If Eagle pilots want somebody to blame, take it out on the flushbAAcks, they are the ones that "stole" your jobs and upgrades, not TSA pilots.

 

[punkpilot48]

The AX flying was TWE. TWA was bought by AMR. Eagle didn't have the planes or the staff to instantly take that feed. *poof* American Connection.

If Eagle pilots want somebody to blame, take it out on the flushbAAcks, they are the ones that "stole" your jobs and upgrades, not TSA pilots.

Thank you.

I guess people don't read anything that I write. Its funny. I guess.

 

[arthompson]

I am former AWAC, many of us moved on before the end of the UA flying to other carriers. However I am still very fond of Air Wisconsin and in many ways wish I had never left (though I'd be furloughed now more than likely). The reason AWAC is no longer flying UAX is because TSH and Mesa underbid them. TSH was able to offer the flying that was done on the 146 from ORD for a cheaper rate using GJ. They also offered the 50 seat flying for less than what AWAC was charging because TSH employee's work for less and therefore were able to force AWAC out of the ORD base. It is the fault of United, but not as much the fault of Geoff or Pat because they didn't come begging for deep concessions from all the labor groups, and they would not reduce the AWAC staff to the level of the poverty wages that TSH works for.
Pinnacle is not quite a fair comparison, as PCL was a wholly owned. It's different when the flying stays inside the same parent corporation. Notice not to many AA guys complain when AE adds service.

 

[punkpilot48]

It's different when the flying stays inside the same parent corporation. Notice not to many AA guys complain when AE adds service.

So whats the deal with the Delta pilots vs. the ASA and Comair pilots?

 

[Peter Brady]

...and guess what? Next time I fly on them, I'll probably post it again. Only difference this last time is that the dorky little pilot in a uniform wasn't sitting in 4C.

You're sad.

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

I am former AWAC, many of us moved on before the end of the UA flying to other carriers. However I am still very fond of Air Wisconsin and in many ways wish I had never left (though I'd be furloughed now more than likely). .

Alright, this is the last time I am saying this. AWAC did not furlough anyone. We are continuously hiring, Upgrades are increasing, and everyone is commuting.

 

[redbook]

I misspelled an Fing word get over it.

Your spelling is just a small problem. The moronic arguments are the main one.

I guess tsa pilots should have rolled over and accepted the whipsaw?

The vast majority of Air Wisconsin pilots were united behind tsa pilots and vice versa. What does that say about you?

 

[arthompson]

No I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that the problem is just GJ, your management being able to undercut ZW because of the rates you were willing to accept forced ZW pilots to the east coast and ZW CS and Ramp personel to the unemployment line. Hope you're happy.

 

[Shrek]

AWAC is fully behind our fight.........

oh yeah you were going to be "furloughed" right?!

So uhh where do you work now?

 

[arthompson]

Shrek get your facts straight, while it is correct that no AWAC pilots were furloughed, because of *YOU* working for substanderd rates, your companies cost are lower than AWAC's so you got AWACs flying. When TSA (along with other UAX carriers) started arriving on scene AWAC lost most of its serviced stations. The plan was originally to close *ALL* AWAC stations. Of the stations that remained open, most took RIF's. This caused a ripple effect system wide. Two of the three hubs that were AWAC handled closed. Most of the AWAC CS Agents are now *FURLOUGHED* I was in Customer Service. If I had stayed at AWAC I would more than likely be furloughed.

I now work for a redtail, sure as heck beats working for Hulas.

 

[punkpilot48]

Two of the three hubs that were AWAC handled closed.

If it's TSA's fault then why has mainline taken over CS ops at ORD? Thats at least one of the hubs I wouldn't know about the other ones.

You see I actully have been furloughed.

I'm allowed to use it as a defense.

You are not.

 

[arthompson]

I never said it was all TSA's fault, what I did say is that you're whining about loosing flying to GJ after you took someone elses flying. Before you tell someone that they've never been furloughed know something about them. I have recieved 2 furlough letters, one of them was canceled, the other resulted in a forced displacement. I have also said that had I stayed at AWAC I *WOULD HAVE BEEN* furloughed, just like several of my friends that now work for other carriers and have recall rights at AWAC. No Pilots may have been furloughed but I guess you don't understand that pilots are not a companies only work group.

 

[TWA Dude]

I never said it was all TSA's fault, what I did say is that you're whining about loosing flying to GJ after you took someone elses flying.

I'm sure there must be a psychological term for the common affliction of pilots confusing themselves with management. Pilots don't choose the routes their company flies. Trans States pilots didn't take flying from anybody. TWA and AA and UA and USAirways gave the flying to TSA. I flew briefly for TSA after furlough and yes, I flew routes that I'd previously flown for TWA. Does that mean I deliberately "stole" flying from myself? Or did I even contribute to my own furlough? Of course not. It's sad but it wasn't the pilots' doing. People like you and the misguided Ironspud need to learn who's to blame (management, if it isn't obvious) and to stop taking out your frustrations on fellow pilots.

G0Jets is different. They truly had a choice and knew full well what the purpose was and what kind of a person Hulas is. The TSA pilots stood firm and refused to accept a cruddy deal to combine the two seniority lists a la Republic and Chautauqua. I hope a solution can still be reached so we can end this ugly chapter.

 

[Dubya]

I never said it was all TSA's fault, what I did say is that you're whining about loosing flying to GJ after you took someone elses flying. Before you tell someone that they've never been furloughed know something about them. I have recieved 2 furlough letters, one of them was canceled, the other resulted in a forced displacement. I have also said that had I stayed at AWAC I *WOULD HAVE BEEN* furloughed, just like several of my friends that now work for other carriers and have recall rights at AWAC. No Pilots may have been furloughed but I guess you don't understand that pilots are not a companies only work group.

Are you flipping kidding me? Again? If you are going to post on a public forum and attempt to argue or have a legitimate position about something...at the very least..TRY to sound like you have a 5th grade education. Now, not only is your argument a joke...you have proven that the first time wasn't a spelling mistake as you tried to portray.

W
Part-time Genius

 

[SUSPilot]

I never said it was all TSA's fault, what I did say is that you're whining about loosing flying to GJ after you took someone elses flying. Before you tell someone that they've never been furloughed know something about them. I have recieved 2 furlough letters, one of them was canceled, the other resulted in a forced displacement. I have also said that had I stayed at AWAC I *WOULD HAVE BEEN* furloughed, just like several of my friends that now work for other carriers and have recall rights at AWAC. No Pilots may have been furloughed but I guess you don't understand that pilots are not a companies only work group.

I swwm to think AWAC is doing a lot of flying for USAir that used to be Trans States Flying. In fact a couple of the TSA UA airplanes used to be USAir airplanes.

 

[redbook]

No I'm saying that you're a moron for thinking that the problem is just GJ, your management being able to undercut ZW because of the rates you were willing to accept forced ZW pilots to the east coast and ZW CS and Ramp personel to the unemployment line. Hope you're happy.

Way to go stupid. What rates did we (TSA) accept? WE VOTED NO.

You are so uninformed, that your stupidity shines through in every post.

 

[XJohXJ]

I'm probably just being gullible here, but are you for real? C'mon, they've got to take care of the hotels, don't they?

 

[arthompson]

Way to go stupid. What rates did we (TSA) accept? WE VOTED NO.

You are so uninformed, that your stupidity shines through in every post.

Your pilot group didn't agree to your current contract?

 

[redbook]

Your pilot group didn't agree to your current contract?

Yeah.....six years ago. We have been working on a new one. So we have an old contract that we are trying to improve. We were offered a four year extension with the same contract to secure g0jet flying. We said NO because we wanted to improve our contract.

Do you follow the logic of most other Air Wisconsin pilots now? Do you see why they support our stand against the g0jet alter ego whipsaw? Or is it somehow still the TSA pilots fault?

Please no more tortured logic.