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airlineapps and sic "type rating"

7574EVER

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I'm updating my things on airlineapps.com and under the certificate section there is a box to check if you have a type rating in a turbojet powered aircraft. Does anyone know if this includes an SIC type? I would tend to say no; but, I won't turn down the chance to click another box.

Not meant to be flame. Just curious how the SIC stuff is viewed.
 

thesource

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The SIC thing was an excercise in paperwork and means nothing. You are not typed in anything and would look foolish trying to convince HR otherwise.
 

phx757fo

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Look at your license. Your type ratings are not listed in any different order. It is a Type rating. It just has a Limitation in that it is for sic privileges only. Ask the HR person if they work for the FAA.
 

CX880

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While we're on this subjetc, how do you know if the airlines got your app? Seems like every time I'd press publish it would send it everyone.
 

7574EVER

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While we're on this subjetc, how do you know if the airlines got your app? Seems like every time I'd press publish it would send it everyone.

....and is there a way to un-publish. I don't think my former employer is interested in getting my updated application every time I update it for new carriers.
 

SLUF4

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I agree with PHX757. It's a type rating with an SIC limitation. I sent them an email about this a year or two ago and they told me to go ahead and check the box, but my computer crashed and I don't have that email to copy it for you. I'd email them if you want the answer directly from them. I'm sure the intent was to probably find out if you have a PIC type rating, but that's not what the little check box says. I wouldn't have a problem explaining why I checked the box if it came up-my license said it was a type rating.
 

Oakum_Boy

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If some of the people I fly with have real type ratings, there's something wrong.
 

flyboyike

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If it requires an 8710, it's a rating, whether it's "real" or "surreal" is irrelevant.
 

Raskal

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It's not a type, if you want to list it as such it probably wouldn't hurt as everyone looking would know exactly what it was, but bottom line it is not a type rating.

Taken from site:
Note: There is no practical test required for the issuance of the ‘‘SIC Privileges Only’’ pilot type rating.

For complete guidance, please refer to the final rule or 14 CFR 61.55. The summary of the process is as follows:


1) The SIC pilot type rating applicant receives familiarization training under 61.55(b) from a qualified pilot in command or an authorized flight instructor who holds the aircraft type rating on his/her pilot certificate.


2) The trainer signs the applicant's logbook or training record after each lesson in accordance with 61.51(h)(2). In lieu of the trainer, it is permissible for a qualified management official within the organization to sign the applicant’s training records or logpplicant’s training records or logbook and make the required endorsement. See 61.55 for the definition of a qualified management official.


3) The trainer or qualified management official makes an endorsement in the applicant's logbook that states ''[Applicant's Name and Pilot Certificate Number] has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the [Type of Aircraft], relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second-in-command.''


4) The applicant completes and signs an Airman Certificate and/or Rating Application, FAA Form 8710-1, and presents the application and a paper copy of the training records containing the signature of the trainer or qualified management official to a FSDO or Examiner.


5) The person who provided the ground and flight training to the applicant must sign the "Instructor’s Recommendation" section of FAA Form 8710–1.


6) The applicant must appear in person at FSDO or to an Examiner with his or her logbook/training records and with the completed and signed FAA Form 8710–1.


It may need an 8710 for records, but it's not a type.
 
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phx757fo

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"Note: There is no practical test required for the issuance of the ‘‘SIC Privileges Only’’ pilot type rating."

Enough Said...

It is a Type. Where is it located on your License. Right next to the other "Type Ratings" It just has the SIC Limitation.
 

SLUF4

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It's all just semantics. It's like passengers that think if you're a first officer you aren't a "pilot", but you are only a "co-pilot".
 

Mel Sharples

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Whether it is official or not to put on an application is irrelevant.

Any HR person worth their weight will be able to tell what kind of flying you did relevant to the type rating. Some airlines don't even give you credit for having a type unless you have X amount of hours as a PIC on that plane.

Any pilot could go purchase a type rating in just about any plane, but without relevant experience it is meaningless. (Emphasis on relevant... to most companies that means actual flying while acting as PIC.)

It was never meant to be an official type rating like most of us think of it. It was meant to show for ICAO purposes that a pilot operating that plane for an airline had been trained on how to fly it and passed a checkride -- that's all. Not too different from the "English Proficient" deal.

Since it is on your license, there is probably no harm putting it on an application. The limitation is still there. But if you tried to sell it to HR/hiring board/whoever as a real type, you are going down the wrong road.

Personally I don't care one way or the other. Just always be careful how you sell your experience. If someone tells you it is O.K. to log level D sim time as "multi" and "turbine" and "total" that doesn't mean it will be accepted that way by the company you are applying to (as it shouldn't).

Good luck!
 

LearLove

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O' Jesus Christ here we go again, its like that "sole manipulator of the controls" PIC topic.

If I were joe interview pilot and you looked at me in an interview and said you had a XXX type when you were only SIC (the paperwork style type) I'd laugh you right back on the van to the airport.

back in 2005 I had an "sic only" 170/190 type but didn't list it on any of my apps. I didn't list it until I actually upgraded and flew as PIC (the one signing the release).

Here is a few rules on logging time and listing resume/rating stuff:

1. It is not PIC time unless your the ONLY one in the aircraft, or are the ACTUAL PIC meaning the one responsible for the aircraft. Things that do not cut it in this area are: sole manipulator, "co-captain" for corp guys and i would even consider not logging PIC when you an instrument/comm/cfi student during a lesson with an instructor. Yes i know what the "regs" say about logging PIC and if you need the time for a rating then by all means count it but when it comes to a resume or job app or interview I would stick to the conservative side.

2. The "paper type rating" is NOT a type and do not list it until you take checkride and the words "limited to SIC" do not appear on your ticket.

3. SIM time does not count for any time (in the job world) Of course if you need the time and its legal in order to get a rating, i.e you filling out an 8710 then by all means, but like the PIC thing, keep it off the job app/resume/interview subject. especially if the sim time is in only of those FBO flight school things.
 
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DrewBlows

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Check the box, but don't lie about it. If an HR person calls you for an interview they are not going to "laugh you right back to the van to the airport". The HR person who schedules your interview should be able to tell what kind of flying you are doing based on your experience and position at your current company. If they can't figure that out it's their problem, not yours. You can only answer the questions as they are asked.
 

Captain Morgan

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I agree with DrewBlows. Why read into the question? It's simple. I would just answer the question at face value. "Do you possess any type ratings?" Yes! Even though it's an SIC, if they wanted to differentiate the two on an application they should've asked, "Do you possess any PIC type ratings?" Whatever, I'm prepared to check the box and if asked about it, I'll just tell them it's a SIC type. No further elaboration necessary.
 

30West

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It's a Type Rating.

It carries a Limitation on it just like a VMC Circle or in the case of a B1900, SIC Privileges Only.

Most are looking at it from a "will it get me a job" point of view. And they are correct. Most job listings requiring a type rating are looking for typed pilots with PIC experience in that particular type. If you have the SIC only limitation that company would have to train you and give you another checkride to have the SIC restriction removed just as if you had gone through an entire initial course. This would negate any savings to the company by being able to "short course" you into the operation. So no, it won't get you the "looking for typed pilots" job.

From strictly an FAA point of view, however, it is very much a Type Rating. It appears on your certificate as such, and requires a reissuance of your pilot certificate by either the FSDO or an Aircrew Program Designee, as is my case.
You cannot log PIC whilst sole manipulator, due to the SIC Only limitation.

That's where the confusion lies.
 

DrewBlows

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Think of it this way. If two guys with the exact same qualifications fill out the application the exact same way except one checks the "type" box and the other doesn't, the guy who checked the box may have a chance to explain himself at the interview. The other guy will get to explain himself on flightinfo.
 

WMUSIGPI

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Ok put it this way guys. I have 5 type ratings listed on my cert. 3 carry the SIC only limitation. 2 Do not. There are 2 other turbine powered "typeable" planes that I have been 135 SIC qualified on in the past( LR-Jet, BA-3100). But by looking at my certificate you'd never know because I left that company about a year before the SIC type rule became final. I was not current to be able to get those types, does that mean I was not qualified as FO, No. Could I repo one part 91 to Europe today, No. Could I fly one as PIC anywhere, No. Could I take one from Nashville to Miami, Yes. Could I repo a Saab or Avro (ones I have the SIC type) to Europe today, Yes. Could I as PIC, No. Do I have additional privelages today, well sort of, but only when speaking about flying outside of the USA. Until there is further clarification of the regulations I'd say yes it is a type rating. Is it worth anything? Probably not unless you are staying current on the type and flying it outside the USA. Clear as mud?
 
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