Airline pilots lobby to fly past age 60

[FoxHunter]

Wow... A one man boycott... How about if all of us boycott the organization over our issue de jour.

Take that over to US Politics... Americans renoucing thier citizenship over the latest scandal, invasion, crisis, whatever...

Why not man up and stick with the organization insteading of being a short term quitter... You have no voice when you pack up your marbles and go home.

Instead, continue to work the issue as member...

Glad you're back.... :beer:

Sorry Rez, quitting is an individual choice but I'm far from alone. A number of pilots at FedEx have quit and remain non-members, another group has revolked DCO. I've met quite a few UAL people in DC and most have also canceled DCO. Yes, they have to pay their dues, eventually!

 

[Freight Dog]

Age 65 is gonna be screwing with a number of operational items, especially if ICAO standards are adopted.

Here's one.... captain and the FO bid the same pairing, both are senior to hold it. Both happen to be old farts over 60, who gets the pairing if one has to be under 60?

That brings up a question. Why does ICAO have that rule? Safety?

Here's a compromise for the old guys:

If you want to keep flying for the airlines past 60, fine. Here are the guidelines:

1) Ineligible to be PIC under Part 121 after 60. Eligible only for First Officer and Flight Engineer positions - just like the old times except now you can stay as an FO.

2) Mandatory sim every 6 months for pilots over 60.

3) Mandatory 1st class physical every 6 months.

4) No penalty for retiring "early" at 60.

 

[N1kawotg]

No one has asnwered my original ? It went into a psuedo history of politics.
So here it goes again. the validity test: If it was not a law today, could Alpa etc get it passed as one? Answer NO WAY
Therefore, it should not be one now. IMHO

 

[jbDC9]

Name me one other industry where the youngsters think they have a god given right to jobs currently held by someone older than them. You can have my seat when I'm good and ready to leave it and not a moment sooner.

Hey Klako, is that you with a new name??

With a rant like this you kinda sound like a senior old captain, but your profile shows otherwise; so tell us Caveman, if you're a senior old guy in the left seat, how do you think you came to be in that position? Were these senior dudes just born as graybeard captains, never to fly as FO/FE?? Uhh, no. They were once junior guys, drooling and waiting for the older guys above 'em on the list to hit age 60 and retire, allowing said junior guys to move up with much rejoicing.

How ironic that the guys whining the loudest about changing the rule don't want to admit that they actually benefitted from the rule throughout their entire careers, moving up the list due to Age 60 retirements above them, but now it's just not fair anymore. Waaahhhh, me me me!!!

 

[B6 Tech]

Hey Klako, is that you with a new name??

With a rant like this you kinda sound like a senior old captain, but your profile shows otherwise; so tell us Caveman, if you're a senior old guy in the left seat, how do you think you came to be in that position? Were these senior dudes just born as graybeard captains, never to fly as FO/FE?? Uhh, no. They were once junior guys, drooling and waiting for the older guys above 'em on the list to hit age 60 and retire, allowing said junior guys to move up with much rejoicing.

How ironic that the guys whining the loudest about changing the rule don't want to admit that they actually benefitted from the rule throughout their entire careers, moving up the list due to Age 60 retirements above them, but now it's just not fair anymore. Waaahhhh, me me me!!!

And when your 57, 58, or 59 you will scream the same damn thing, so leave that hypocritical argument out. And when these "old farts" were benifiting from the age 60 rule, those hitting the magic number were leaving with the option of lump sum payouts in some cases in the 7 figures. Those guys didn't have the rug ripped out from them 3 years till 60. Easy to sit here at 39 or 40 and tell them they should have saved in the "good times". Just about everyone I know lives a lifestyle that they can support. Just as these "old farts" have been doing, atleast until 3-4 years ago. And i'm going to guess that you, and 90% of the people on this board, regradless as you will say, will do the same damn thing. Lets see, its june 1999 and I have a DFB and I clear 160K a year. I'm 58, the kids are grown ( damn that was expensive, the oldest had serious issues, and the youngest didn't have any structure because dad was on the road a minimum of 4 days a week, so they both ended up in " special " schools ) and finally the wife and I can look forward to the good years. She wants a new car, so I go get it. Why not? Then the CH11's come, and I never consulted my crystal ball at 40 to realize that I was going to have to fund my own retirement. Now i'm *************************ed. Hope the shoe is never on your foot my friend. But let me guess, you far to smart for that...you are a pilot after all....

I love you pilots...you're own worst enemies...

 

[Klako]

Who is it?

Hi Kit

 

[Caveman]

Hey Klako, is that you with a new name??

With a rant like this you kinda sound like a senior old captain, but your profile shows otherwise; so tell us Caveman, if you're a senior old guy in the left seat, how do you think you came to be in that position? Were these senior dudes just born as graybeard captains, never to fly as FO/FE?? Uhh, no. They were once junior guys, drooling and waiting for the older guys above 'em on the list to hit age 60 and retire, allowing said junior guys to move up with much rejoicing.

How ironic that the guys whining the loudest about changing the rule don't want to admit that they actually benefitted from the rule throughout their entire careers, moving up the list due to Age 60 retirements above them, but now it's just not fair anymore. Waaahhhh, me me me!!!

Wrong on all counts. Not senior, not old and haven't benefitted from the age 60 rule. I've only been in the business 5 years. I am a libertarian and that is the whole basis of my opposition to a mandatory retirement age. If I am physically and mentally able to work in my chosen profession I should be allowed to. The rule is arbitrary, archaic and violates the fundamental principle of personal freedom and choice. If you don't want to work, don't. You have no right to decide whether or not I choose to work.

So, I guess you'd be o.k. with a mandatory retirement based on longevity? 20 years and you're done. What if you're only 46? Too bad! You had you're turn. Move aside a let the junior guys get theirs. See, it really isn't about safety or age is it? It's about junior guys abrogating the seniority of pilots that got there first. In every other aspect of this business seniority rules except for this age discrimination rule. So who's really trying to change the rules that they've benefitted from? The junior guys, that's who. They want to get their bid instead of someone below them but they don't want to honor it completely and let the senior guys keep theirs. Only when it benefits them. Hypocrits.

 

[Flopgut]

And when your 57, 58, or 59 you will scream the same dang thing, so leave that hypocritical argument out. And when these "old farts" were benifiting from the age 60 rule, those hitting the magic number were leaving with the option of lump sum payouts in some cases in the 7 figures. Those guys didn't have the rug ripped out from them 3 years till 60. Easy to sit here at 39 or 40 and tell them they should have saved in the "good times". Just about everyone I know lives a lifestyle that they can support. Just as these "old farts" have been doing, atleast until 3-4 years ago. And i'm going to guess that you, and 90% of the people on this board, regradless as you will say, will do the same dang thing. Lets see, its june 1999 and I have a DFB and I clear 160K a year. I'm 58, the kids are grown ( dang that was expensive, the oldest had serious issues, and the youngest didn't have any structure because dad was on the road a minimum of 4 days a week, so they both ended up in " special " schools ) and finally the wife and I can look forward to the good years. She wants a new car, so I go get it. Why not? Then the CH11's come, and I never consulted my crystal ball at 40 to realize that I was going to have to fund my own retirement. Now i'm *************************ed. Hope the shoe is never on your foot my friend. But let me guess, you far to smart for that...you are a pilot after all....

I love you pilots...you're own worst enemies...

Your hypothetical scenario happened in my family, and guess what? I support age 60 retirement! I've actually lived it and it's worse when your family loses income, insurance, and retirement simultaneously...and it's a complete ambush at about age 50! These guys have had the luxury of knowing it was coming at 60, they should be somewhat prepared. You think I enjoy having to listen to how experienced, senior, deservant, special, and wronged they all are when I've actually lived out what they are fearing worst? He!! no, if they are so great they can do what we did in my family: gut it out!

 

[Flopgut]

Wrong on all counts. Not senior, not old and haven't benefitted from the age 60 rule. I've only been in the business 5 years. I am a libertarian and that is the whole basis of my opposition to a mandatory retirement age. If I am physically and mentally able to work in my chosen profession I should be allowed to. The rule is arbitrary, archaic and violates the fundamental principle of personal freedom and choice. If you don't want to work, don't. You have no right to decide whether or not I choose to work.

So, I guess you'd be o.k. with a mandatory retirement based on longevity? 20 years and you're done. What if you're only 46? Too bad! You had you're turn. Move aside a let the junior guys get theirs. See, it really isn't about safety or age is it? It's about junior guys abrogating the seniority of pilots that got there first. In every other aspect of this business seniority rules except for this age discrimination rule. So who's really trying to change the rules that they've benefitted from? The junior guys, that's who. They want to get their bid instead of someone below them but they don't want to honor it completely and let the senior guys keep theirs. Only when it benefits them. Hypocrits.

I think the idea of "20 years then your done" is pretty good. But I think your an off track libertarian when you characterize "junior guys abrogating seniority" and senior types differently. Junior pilots are the ones seeing their seniority abrogated. Their seniority will provide for less than those who came before them. Conversely, those senior types now will enjoy inordinately more than those who came before AND after them. It's too large a transfer of wealth in the current scheme of things.

 

[jbDC9]

So, I guess you'd be o.k. with a mandatory retirement based on longevity? 20 years and you're done. What if you're only 46? Too bad! You had you're turn. Move aside a let the junior guys get theirs. See, it really isn't about safety or age is it? It's about junior guys abrogating the seniority of pilots that got there first. In every other aspect of this business seniority rules except for this age discrimination rule. So who's really trying to change the rules that they've benefitted from? The junior guys, that's who. They want to get their bid instead of someone below them but they don't want to honor it completely and let the senior guys keep theirs. Only when it benefits them. Hypocrits.

Gotta disagree with Flop on this one. A 20 year longevity rule? Yep, that's somewhat retarded.

Caveman, why do you slam the junior guys as being greedy bastards and ignore the fact that the current crop of senior guys nearing 60 benefitted from the Age 60 rule as they climbed the seniority list? Yep, 20-25 yrs ago these senior guys were once junior greedy bastards themselves, waiting for the older guys to retire so they could move up. Get it yet??? I really don't know why this is such a hard concept for some to grasp.