Airline Pilot Attendance Policy

LoveGun

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Does your airline have an attendance policy? We at PSA were stuck with an attendance policy about a year ago and our union is working to get it removed. I am sure other pilot groups have been through this struggle before. I am hoping you guys could offer some ideas to help us fight management on this one.

Here's the gist of our policy: Four sick calls in a year...verbal warning. Five sick calls gets you a written warning. Six sick calls equals a three day suspention, and after seven you're fired.

Of course management says this policy is legal and the FAA has no problem with it. Currently our union is working on it through the greivence process, but that is taking a long, long time. Any suggestions??

Thanks in advance for any advice.
 

PCL_128

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Amazing. They must have copied your attendance policy straight from ours which was started about a year and half ago. It's identical. Our management technically still has the policy on the books, but as of about 3 months ago it is no longer being enforced. I think they realized that they could get in serious trouble if they actually fired anyone for calling in sick. Your management hasn't actually fired anyone yet have they?
 

fletch717

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If you call out sick every 3 months, you have a problem.
 

skeezer

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fletch717 said:
If you call out sick every 3 months, you have a problem.
Or you have kids who bring germs home from school and pass them to you. Instead of spreading disease throughout your company and vilolating regs you decide to call off sick like you should.

Skeezer
 

viper548

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At SKW the FAs have a policy like that. I think 8 in a year and they get fired. Pilots don't have a policy. Just give them at least an hour and a half notice.
 

trip

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Pilots dont have a policy like that? Than whats that reliability report doing in your face every time you log on?
 

Jurassic Jet

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I can't believe any airline would be stupid enough to put a policy like that in writing. Just wait till they have an "incident" because someone was flying sick because they feared for their job. I'm sure the feds are not "OK" with this....probably don't even know about it. Maybe you should ask your POI about it personally. Can you imagine if USA Today would get ahold of this???
 

fletch717

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love gun posted that at the 7th sick call in 12 months you will get fired. That equates to calling in sick every 45 days. I understand that children get sick and things happen, most companies will work with you and your family issues as long as you keep them in the loop. Arbitrarily calling out sick 4 or more times in one year is hard to defend.
 

Jimdandy

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First off no one can fire you for being sick unless they can prove your abusing the system by calling in sick when your not. Laws are quite clear on this.

The airline just tries to scare you in reality they never fire anyone for being sick.
 

JohnQ

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Jimdandy said:
First off no one can fire you for being sick unless they can prove your abusing the system by calling in sick when your not. Laws are quite clear on this.

The airline just tries to scare you in reality they never fire anyone for being sick.
Perhaps not, but there ARE some bad apples out there. I had one guy on the jumpseat that said, "I call in sick once a quarter whether I need to or not." Another captain told me, "last week I had that recurrent captain's eye disease--I just couldn't see going into work."

The problem with threads like this is that the *occasional* bad apple is ignored, while what most non-pilots would note is a reasonable mgmt concern is criticized.

I must emphasize that the number of bad apples is very slim. The bigger question is how do you allow mgmt to reasonablye deal with the small number of bad apples while not ever bearing down on someone who happens to be sick more than usual?
 

Redeyes

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trip said:
Pilots dont have a policy like that? Than whats that reliability report doing in your face every time you log on?
What reliability report ??? Don't click on it and that's the end of that.
 

sf260pilot

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Go to work = Fly airplanes. Save sick days until you need them or you retire. If you are 57 and have sick time, use it then. If you hate your job so much do something else. Then you will find out how great flying an airplane "for a paycheck" is. Notice I did not say "for a living"
 
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viper548

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trip said:
Pilots dont have a policy like that? Than whats that reliability report doing in your face every time you log on?
Once you look at it after the 1st of the month it disappears from the main page. There's no contract, so i'm not saying one should test the system by calling in sick all the time. From what I have heard the 8 and out policy for the FA's is because there were several of them calling in sick whenever they didn't feel like working or didn't get a day off they requested.
 

FlyboyPhil

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I've been sick/taken E leave 11 days in the last year.. 4 different occasions(two sinus explosions, 1 flu and one funeral).. per the reliability report the company average is 4.8 days. My sick/emergency leave bar is big and red and more than double the average and nobody has batted an eye so far.. I guess next time I call in sick they may ask for a doctors note.. I was thinking of just wandering up to the CPs office and blowing on my hanky.. takes just as much time as going to the doctor, but I dont have to wait 2 weeks for an appointment or fund the co-pay :p
 

Ty Webb

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fletch717 said:
love gun posted that at the 7th sick call in 12 months you will get fired. That equates to calling in sick every 45 days. I understand that children get sick and things happen, most companies will work with you and your family issues as long as you keep them in the loop. Arbitrarily calling out sick 4 or more times in one year is hard to defend.
Sorry, Fletch, I disagree.

Your sick time is a negotiated benefit. We gave up something to get that. It has a cost, and we have it for a reason. It is just not possible to bid for all time off a person needs, especially with a family. When I was a ramper at Fedex we got 4 personal days per year, which are paid days off, in addition to 4 sick calls. . . . that's as a ramper, for cryin' out loud.

I'm not talking about a rock concert here, or a golf outing. I'm talking about being sick, having a family member sick, or having something important enough to need the time off for . . . . how about a house closing, a crown falling out, a sick kid, or even - gasp - a commuting problem. Sorry . . . with no commuter policy in place, it is definitely "a bad burrito on the way to the airport".

When management realizes that our lack of a commuter policy- and the new policy of not allowing you to pick up your trip after a sick day day or two- are costing us money, they will change it. Unitl then, put me in the "4 a year club".

PS., at America West, if you don;t use your sick time each year, you lose it. They give you around 60 hours a year, and it is understood that you will use it . . . otherwise, it's just gone.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled douche-bag slamming . . . . where are ya, Chuckie Boy?
 
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viper548

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FlyboyPhil said:
I've been sick/taken E leave 11 days in the last year.. 4 different occasions(two sinus explosions, 1 flu and one funeral).. per the reliability report the company average is 4.8 days. My sick/emergency leave bar is big and red and more than double the average and nobody has batted an eye so far.. I guess next time I call in sick they may ask for a doctors note.. I was thinking of just wandering up to the CPs office and blowing on my hanky.. takes just as much time as going to the doctor, but I dont have to wait 2 weeks for an appointment or fund the co-pay :p
I'll see if I can't single handedly raise the company avg. I broke my ankle and will be out for about 4 months.
 

vtwo

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I agree Sick time is a negotiated benefit. The union traded something to the company for sick time. If you need to use your negotiated benefit then use it.
One persons Idea of being sick is not the same as anothers.

It is a benefit to be used. if you are out of sicktime and still need it then your outta luck.

Those that save sicktime un till they retire and then brag." i haven't used a sickday in 27 years"
Well shame on you for getting others sick. or your one healthy sun of a gun.
Bottom line is it is your benefit. like vacationpay, 401k, or pensions.
 

TonyC

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fletch717 said:
Arbitrarily calling out sick 4 or more times in one year is hard to defend.
Oh, you are so right. Illnesses must be scheduled at least 180 days in advance, and they may never number more than 3 per year, and they should never last more than 48 hours. Anyone that cannot conform to such a rigorous discipline of becoming sick has no business in this business. Having an illness at an arbitrary time is completely unprofessional.

Train your viruses, and whip those infections into shape. Quarantine yourself from your loved ones, if necessary, for the ultimate god of our being is The Company. We will have no sniffle before it's time.



Hey, fletch. When's your next cold scheduled?



:rolleyes:




.
 

ivauir

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A couple of thoughts:

- At SWA we have no sick leave policy for the pilots. Other groups do have a policy, but I guess that pilot's attendance is reliable enough without it.
- SWAPA has a charity fund to help folks who run out of sick trips.
- When I flew for the military I rarely got sick, now it seams like every spring my sinuses explode. I don't think it is our families (I had little kids in the military, bigger kids now) I think it is our jobs. We get exposed to incredible things in our travels and some of those things are viral.
- I make every effort to stay healthy, but I don't fly if I am even a little under the weather. Our jobs are too important

Good luck reversing/fighting this policy. I think it stinks.
 

LoveGun

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Thanks for the input. ALPA is actually backing us on this one and we're getting some funding to fight the company. Watch for us in the papers.
 
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