Airline Flying: just a job after a while

[shon7]

Have been talking to a lot of pilots lately and they say that airline flying just becomes a job after a couple of years and I should look into airline management instead while flying as a hobby?

The argument is that management treats people like dirt and that is the real state of the industry. Furthermore,airline flying is too hyped by all these fllight schools and thus one does not get the full picture.

I have been talking to pilots for a while now and most of the older/senior pilots seem to agree that the airline lifestyle is not at all what it is made out to be.

So could anyone please give me their experience and opinions so I can get a better understanding.

Thanks

 

[ivauir]

IMHO

Eventually everything is just a job - even things you love to do can grind you down, because there are unpleasant and repetative aspects to everything. And nothing stays exciting forever.

My advise: don't expect any job to give you a fulfilling life.

 

[AK737FO]

I think it depends on who you work for and what kind of attitude you bring to work each day.

I have NO desire to fly heavy jets across the ocean, up all night, sleep all day, autopilot on for 12 hours, one or two landings a month and always an ILS to get you there. Boreing.... I would go crazy with a job like that.

I thank the good Lord each day that I work where I do. I got to do four legs this morning, watched the sun rise on the Arctic circle, took pictures of Mt. McKinley with the digital camera, did a flaps 40 to a 6,500 foot snow covered strip on the top of the world and got off at mid field. Loving Life!

You see, for me, it is all about making the most of each day. If you are not happy where you are working, then do something about it! Find your "nitch", a place where you belong. Life is way to short to look back at the end of a career and think you could have done it better, or worse, you should have done it different.

I think you are wise to ask these questions and think about these things early in your flying career. For me it was simple. I knew that I could never rest until I worked for this specific company doing this specific job. You need to find out what it is you are suppose to do in this life and then make it happen!
Good luck to you.

 

[cactus]

No matter how bad it gets out there I can't imagine doing anything else. It is still the best job in the world.

 

[acaTerry]

The old joke sums it up pretty well....
A guys asks an airline pilot how he likes his job. The pilot says "Well, it took 30,000 dollars to get my ratings and licences, I flew as a CFI for 3 years on 500 dollars a month pay. They all told me it would be great. Well, here I am at the airlines now. The days are 10-14 hours long, weather sucks, schedulers beat you to death, and management makes your life a bittch. I am gone 350 hours a month, and just darn tired."
The guys asked the pilot "why don't you get an easier job?"
The pilot replied "WHAT?!!! And quit FLYING?!!!!"
That's pretty much how it is. A tough way to live, but a great way to make a living.

 

[Huck]

Write this down - in the end, the only things that matter are your friends and your family. A job is just a job, no matter where you work.

Except for the guy that preps the models for the Victoria's Secret photo shoots. But you probably have to know somebody to get that one.....

 

[chase]

Did 20 years in the military, all flying. 2.5 yrs in civilian world. Wouldn't trade it for a minute! Was it all fun, no but the rewards, satisfaction far outweighs ANY of the negatives. I would disagree with the person who said ANY job gets old after awhile. I changed jobs from the military because I knew I wasn't going to fly as much as I had previously. So now I'm flying 700-1000 hrs a year & love it. You have to have the right attitude, family situation, etc. to be able to live this lifestyle. I had plenty of guys say that if they had my family they would've never gotten out of flying...the spouse got them out & other demands. That can make life plenty miserable. Its a package deal, the spouse, family, flying. Its a balance but at times it can get out of balance & if life at home sucks then work will too. Keep asking, its not a life for everyone but if you want challenges, have a good attitude & want a different day/view from the office every day then its the job for you. cheers,

i too thank the Lord each day for giving me the opportunity to do this. I did something before flying & while I loved it (teaching), I enjoy this much more!

 

[RichardFitzwell]

shon7,

I'd say the people that say airlines aren't all they're cracked up to be, haven't flown for the airlines.

Granted, flying does become a job and maybe a little boring but think about it -- do you really want it to be exciting? Accidents and incidents are exciting. I want flying to be somewhat 'boring.'

I have flown as a flight instructor, ferry pilot, frieght dog, flight engineer, first officer and captain for the airlines. Being an airline pilot is the greatest job I have ever had.

R.F.

 

[LR25]

It is a great job.

Coming in to a busy airport early in the morning or early evening, on short final flying over all those cars lined up on the highway or interstate during rush hour sums it up.

But I must say, flying has its moments whether they are boring or exciting. I have been on both sides of the fence. Being a profesional A&P for a couple of 121 airlines, I have gone back and forth on being a pilot and being a mechanic (you have to do what you got to do in the aviation business). Anyway, In the poring rain changing a fuel control I had wished I could be back in the cockpit, on the other hand, on that 8th leg of the day on a 4 day trip wishing I could just be changing that Main wheel assembly or troubleshooting that autopilot.

Pro's and con's to every job. Like a previous poster said, you have to do what makes you happy. I'm just glad I can be just as happy fixing them or flying them.

I will add this also, there is no business like the aviation business. Whether you are a mechanic, maintenance controller, airline captian, frieght dog, you name it, there is a definite brotherhood there in all of it, I'm glad to be part of it.

Do what makes you happy.

LR25

 

[b747dogg]

Flying beats working for a living. Flying is what you make of it. if you're out to have fun and a good time, you will. if your a slam clicker or an a$$, you won't. as for management, you must remove your brain first. have fun.

 

[w8n4swa]

My view....

No other office job will give you the window view like this one everyday. There's something peaceful about the view above the clouds.....like sailing.....all of life's worries will be left behind.

If you think of this as just a job, you won't enjoy it. I'm here because I really enjoyed flying. My thoughts were occupied with flying when I was in the Medical field. So, I gave it a try and haven't turned back since. Just follow your heart....

 

[PurpleInMEM]

It's a job...

Maybe my views are a little different than those of other pilots, but I've never considered my current position or my previous corporate flying as anything more than just a job. I think initially I was drawn into flying as being 'fun', but it hasn't been that way in a long time. Flying for a large carrier is a great way to make outstanding money (assuming you can keep your medical and don't bust any checks) and have a ton of time off. You'll hear a lot of guys here say "this is the best part-time job I've ever had". It's true.

There will be those out there that will say that I can't last in this occupation because I don't consider it a religous experience. I doubt it. My current income and future earnings potential coupled with outstanding benefits and a solid retirement program mean I'll be here for the long term. Throw into the mix the obscene amount of time off and this is a really good gig. Assuming the company never goes belly-up, improvements in our contract will make it even better over time.

Flying doesn't define who I am or what I am. It's a way to make a decent living in a professional occupation and have more time with the family doing the things that I enjoy.

If you're the type of person that flies for money and pleasure, instructs, has all the ratings, aerobatics, sailplanes, etc. More power to you; the world needs folks like that. It's just not me.

Fly safe.

 

[hiflier]

Your heart has to be in it

I hope to retire soon after 22 years in the military and hope to keep flying until I kick the bucket. I have my fingers crossed that the Air Force will release me and my number at comes up at SWA before they quit hiring. If you are asking the question whether flying is just a job, it probably will be for you. As long as I can remember, I have always dreamed of flying. I cannot imagine doing anything else and have never regretted my decision to be a pilot. Anything else would be just a job. I look forward to going to work each day (if I am on the flying schedule anyway). I agree with everyone else who said that it will be what you make of it. I am embarrassed to use the expression (please don't tell anyone I did) but you have to follow your heart. Good luck
Boots

 

[Rob Beeks]

LUV to fly

Boots:

This is why you will be flying at SWA, and "PurpleInMem" is where he is at.

 

[SpeedRacer]

Beeks,

I've got 8,000 reasons why I'm glad I didn't have to "pay" for my job/type rating and went with FedEx instead!!!

Talk about drinking the "LUV coolaid" and begging for seconds!!

Ouch!! that's gotta sting in the wallet!!

Keep patting yourselves on the back and believing good ol' Herb is looking out for your best interests. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't SWA management come running to the bargaining table with briefcases full of money when you guys asked for a raise before Sept 11th? No, you bet that didn't
happen.......

 

[ivauir]

No Boobie 50's for Speedracer

See FedEx Vs SWA post if you want to understand my joke. But seriously speedy, while ol Herb maybe frugal at least he is not trying to extend crew days longer than 8 hours. I guess Fred thinks that is in your best interests.
Mozam is just pointing out that there is a different mentality in the SWA crowd - I guess you just proved it eight thousand times.

 

[Jobhunter]

I was furloughed in January and miss everything about the job. I definately need a fix.

I have been involved in aviation since I was a kid, and am now 40. Aviation has always been a large part of my life, my passion.

I have recently interviewed with an airline and I am praying that I can get back in the saddle. If you have the passion, you will continue finding a way to a flightdeck job and will always enjoy it (at least for this 40 year old)! The road is seldom straight, look for opportunities at every turn.

 

[dgs]

After my first airline flight of IOE, which was my first flight in 9 months, I felt the same excitement I did on my first solo. The cabin cheered as we landed. Every leg people were getting off the plane thrilled with their jetBlue experience. One little girl drew a picture "To the Piolet [sic]." (It was a jetBlue plane flying under a rainbow.) I couldn't stop grinning. Can you believe they pay us to have this much fun? After four hops we did a Cat III autoland into a very foggy JFK.

I'm sure every day won't be that much fun or as exciting, but if you are working for a good company with visionary leadership and great working conditions, your chances are greatly improved. I'm thankful every day that I have the opportunity to fly for this company.

After 20 years in the AF I did a lot of soul searching about what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Ask yourself this question, "If you could do ANY job in the world, what job would you want to do?" The answer for me was "airline pilot," so it was pretty handy that I had the qualifications to be hired by an airline. I may be drunk on blue Kool-aid, but I don't know of a better job than to fly for jetBlue.

 

[SpeedRacer]

"ivauir"

Herb K. and Fred Smith are probably golfing buddies for all I know - which doesn't surprise me about the 8-24 (just another ploy to screw with the pilots). I am just a number on a sheet of paper to Fred S. - nothing more.....I know he's absolutly, positively NOT looking out for "my best interests".....it's business, plain and simple......

Question? How would the SWA group respond if/when Herb K. asks for the same 8-24 extension?

You can't honestly say you'll agree to it OR Herb is such a great guy he would never ask soo much from his crewforce.......

Have you paid off your loan for that type rating yet!!!

 

[RJAAguy]

>>I should look into airline management instead while flying as a hobby?<<

Two words: BAD ADVISE!

If you want to go into management, pick just about any industry other than the airlines. I have many friends in management at several airlines and they all work long hours, often 5 ½ to 6 days a week and make about half what an airline captain makes. They are usually strung along with profit sharing and or stock options that rarely pay off except for the hand full of big dogs at the very top. Few make it to the end, leaving the industry in their 40’s or 50’s angry, disillusioned and hating pilots.

As a pilot, you can make more money and have a lot more days off. With that you can always go out and fly something you consider “fun” for a hobby.

And always remember: if it flies or floats, it’s cheaper to rent

 

[RJAAguy]

>>I have NO desire to fly heavy jets across the ocean, up all night, sleep all day, autopilot on for 12 hours, one or two landings a month and always an ILS to get you there. Boreing.... I would go crazy with a job like that.<<

Many pilots choose to stay on smaller domestic aircraft and routes for just that reason. Others choose to spend their entire career flying only international, sometimes passing up a captain upgrade on domestic equipment until they can hold the left seat international. Like they say, different strokes.

Working for an airline where you can make that choice is certainly nice, just in case you change your mind down the road.

 

[profile]

Personally, I love the flying I do. I enjoy international more than domestic, as it is even more interesting and challenging. Domestic flying has more potential to become "just a job" to me, especially if you fly a lot of legs to the same spots all the time. However, flying the airplane never gets old. Does that mean that I don't want to be home sometimes instead? No, it doesn't. Of course, having to be away from family is less than ideal, and that doesn't matter who fly for. However, in terms of a job, I think it's one of the better ones.

As to the 8 hr rule thing, as I stated in the other thread, this issue isn't so simple. For you WN guys, put yourself in this situation. You are scheduled for 6:50 block for the day. Due to some weather around LUV there, you end up projecting a total block of around 7:50, including one more flight out to say Lubbock and back to go. Does WN have you stay at the hub on the chance that you would exceed 8 hrs, or do you still get launched out to LBB? I would venture that you are still going to LBB. Now, let's say you get there after a bit of delay outbound (11 minutes) and you land in LBB and are now, with the scheduled flight time back to LUV, scheduled to exceed 8 hrs. The airline is now stuck, no reserves in LBB and you don't get to go home that night. Assume that was the last flight for the night back inbound. How does WN handle this sort of situation? (If LBB happens to be a crew base, substitute some other location. If you happen to live in LBB, substitute some God-forsaken location that you'd hate to layover in and add miserable weather).

Anyway, the above is the scenario we are talking about. Many airlines already have some sort of excemption to this rule. Not saying that it's right, but people do need to know what the issue is.

 

[GuppyPuppy]

AK737FO -

You really have it figured out. If I never make it to AS I will try to stay on the Guppy for as long as I can and do the shorter hops into MFR, BUR, SAN and EUG. AS was my first choice, I just happened to get hired somewhere else first and AS has never called me in. Don't get me wrong...I work for a good company and I just may stay here for the remainder of my career...or until I can afford to retire and go back to JNU.

I know that AS was worried/upset that pilots with 5+ years experience were leaving for the "big majors". How would the recruiters look at someone leaving a "big major" to go work for AS...and still no turbine PIC with no prospects of turbine PIC for many, many years? Hopefully they'll be hiring again sometime soon.

I'm returning to my bush pilot roots for the summer. I'm looking forward to doing some real flying once again!

See you in JNU. I'll be the one flying the Big Six with a Can-Can dancer on the tail!!!

Cheers!

GP

 

[acaTerry]

Not me...

You can have it! Day VFR for me. Maybe it's 3 years at 7000 to 15000 feet in crummy east coast weather in props, but I just want to take it easy! PHX-TUS-PHX-TUS-PHX for me any day (except monsoon season). I don't know how you bush pilots do it. Holding the record for World's Greatest Cold Weather Wuss....
Terry

 

[FastCargo]

Beats Working...

To all,

Personally, I can't imagine doing anything else! I had an 11 year run in the active USAF, and there were days (hand flying supersonic at 300 AGL in the Bone at Red Flag) where I thought I would gladly pay for flying. On other days (night, stuck in clouds to FL390 with lightning flashes all around me, in the equivalent of a C172 with jet engines) I wondered what in the hell I was thinking. Most flights were somewhere in between, mostly closer to the fun side.

In my current (hopefully final) airline job, it is more routine, maybe less exciting, but I still find it hard to imagine being as jazzed about sitting at a desk, wondering when I can finish that next report for the boss, etc. I did that kind of job in the USAF for a bit, learned a lot at the desk, but you can have it! I guess one other way of looking at it is that in flying, you make decisions that can directly affect your life, and in some other professions, you make decisions that affect your living.

Finally, I have two outlets to relieve the 'blah' flying. One, I'll be flying T-38 reserves for as long as I can, and two, I plan to buy/build my own plane once my pay goes back up after first year. Thank God my wife is understanding of that goal (she's a plane nut too)...

As with anything else, it's gotta fit who you are...and I'm just happy to be here!

FastCargo

 

[captain]

hope the desk job garauntees a moving panoramic view of the country!

nuff said!!!

 

[sentry]

Sweet

It's very Sweet

 

[ivauir]

naysayers and doubters

shon,
No matter what you do people will mock and ridicule it. Dogs will bark, rain will fall and losers will ponificate on what cannot be done. They will call themselves "realists" or "pragmatic", but you need to see them for what they are: people so afraid of failure they don't try anymore. To these people your efforts, trials, and ultimate success are an afront. Clearly these voices are to be ignored.

Not to say that pursing an airline career is easy: I've never heard of a message board on the internet devoted to getting a job at McDonalds. Anything you do that is worth while is difficult - that is why you so often hear "do what you love".

I'd like to recommend Colin Powel's decision making process: gather all of the information in the available time, and then go with your gut.

Best of luck

 

[AlbieF15]

Shon,

C'mon....flying isn't a "puss game", but there are tons of success stories.

My bio is out on the boards....civ CFII, AFROTC, fighters for 14 years, and recently hired by FedEx. As some might say: "standard military guy".

But...a week ago as I was starting IOE I saw a familar face...a great guy and classmate from Auburn University days back in mid eighties (who hadn't changed a bit) walking around the FedEx AOC. I recognized him, pulled him aside, and we quickly caught up. His bio:

NROTC at AU...but eyes didn't pass test. He said "See ya'" instead of being an NFO (nav) or surface officer.

Did CFI/CFII job at part 61 operation during school (actually took position I vacated when I moved to A.U. Aviation department)

Flew corporate for about 4 years...variety of turobprop stuff.

Did ASA for 2-3 years. Tired of low pay and frustrated by lack of hiring in majors (92-94) took part time job slinging boxes for FedEx. Got internal preference interview and hired in 94-95 timeframe.

Now an MD-11 FO...could hold Capt on 727 if he desired. Makes gobs of money, holds good lines, and is pretty happy with life.

So....mil guy with ins? No...he knew NOBODY. Rich kid? YGTBSM...he was a starving college kid just like me, and made beans for several years at ASA. What he did have were A)Vision...the ability to see his goal and a path to get there and B) persistence....not letting the frustrations stop him (i.e...corporate job's dead end, commuters low pay, box tossing's lack of "pizzaz"). In aviation, as in life, there are always those blessed with more resources, contacts, and advantages. However--I've seen enough doggedly persistent types be successful in many endevours to say my money will be on the guy who is pragmatic enough to give himself options, but when decision time comes choses to follow his heart with reckless perseverence. In any case...good luck to you in your choices.

Albie

PS...all you mil verses civ flamebaiters. This old boy got to Fedex at around 29-30. He'll have a 30+ year career. VERY few mil guys can ever do that. Remember that as you weigh all the pros and cons...

 

[JOHN LA HAYE]

There are people out in the regular world that work 9-5 for twenty years trying to get an office with a window, ten more years and they get a view.

We are payed to see things that others can only imagine.
The sunsets and sunrises, the stars. I used to fly for a freight operation out of HNL, there were days when I flew Honolulu to Kona then around the Big Island to Hilo. People pay huge money to take air tours of Hawaii and don't see half of what I was payed welllto see.

Of course flying becomes just a job after a while be D@MN ! Can you really think of more than a hand full of things you would rather be doing. OK the Victoria's Secret gig I can see that as a career move.

Believe this, ground pounder out there want the do what we do. Take stock in what you have, what you are, and be proud. Not everyone is able to do in life what they love. I have never met a pilot that doesn't love to fly.