Airline Biz Blog Reports on SWAPA/ALPA Process Agreement

[MILF Hunter]

This is a blog from the Dallas Morning News.

This and that from the airline labor front
By
Terry Maxon/Reporter
tmaxon@dallasnews.com | Bio
5:40 PM on Fri., Mar. 11, 2011 | PermalinkLet's wrap up several items involving airline labor in one item.
1. The Southwest Airlines Pilots' Association and the Air Line Pilots Association had an agreement a week ago on the process they would use for deciding how the Southwest and AirTran Airways seniority list would be merged.
And then they didn't have an agreement.
The original announcement from SWAPA and ALPA came on March 3. Then, on Wednesday, March 9, AirTran's master executive council said the union now has concerns about the March 3 deal.
"As mentioned in that announcement, it was clearly understood that prior to final agreement, the document would be subject to review and approval by our respective legal and management teams," the AirTran union told its members.
"As part of that review process, both our outside and ALPA counsel have expressed concern over portions of language formulated during the final session of talks on Thursday," it said. "We believe these concerns should be addressed, and we look forward to working further with our counterparts at SWAPA to draft language with which all Parties will be satisfied."
On Friday, SWAPA president Steve Chase informed his members about the ALPA MEC message.
"Ironically, the very language for which ALPA is now expressing concern is the same language that they themselves inserted within the Process Agreement back in December," Chase said in a message to members.
"As a result, a Process Agreement has not been finalized, further extending a long and cumbersome progression of combining the two pilot groups. That being said, your Negotiating Committee maintains its willingness to negotiate with ALPA in good faith to finalize a Process Agreement that will control the structure and timeline of the SLI talks going forward," he said.

 

[GuppyWN]

Last weeks news.

Only down side is it extends the amount of time the total process will take.

Gup

 

[swa737-700]

Gup,
Why are you in a hurry to get this completed?

 

[flynvixen]

This process is going to take years. The ALPA job killing machine will never accept any offer we put forth and I am sure we will not accept any offer they come up with.

They are going to demand the definition of "IS" is at every turn until this goes to arbitration. The lawyers are going to be the big winners in this fight.

Fence them off forever if we need to or, pull a Muse on them and be done with them.

While they are inside the fence start selling of aircraft and putting crews on the street until there is nothing left.

These hard core ALPA wackos could have our contract sooner than later but they are going to over reach and end up with nothing.

The greed of ALPA makes me want to vomit

Cheers

 

[Raoul Duke]

ALPA's concerns were the fact that they wanted to delay the loss of dues to ALPA. Talk about looking terrible - object to the deal you cut due to language that you proposed. Seriously, is this 3rd grade?

 

[PCL_128]

ALPA's concerns were the fact that they wanted to delay the loss of dues to ALPA.

We've costed ALPA more than we have brought in in dues revenue.

Talk about looking terrible - object to the deal you cut due to language that you proposed.

That's not what actually happened. Don't believe everything you read.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

We've costed ALPA more than we have brought in in dues revenue.

are you serious???

 

[Lear70]

The lawyers are going to be the big winners in this fight.

That's true.

Fence them off forever if we need to or, pull a Muse on them and be done with them.

While they are inside the fence start selling of aircraft and putting crews on the street until there is nothing left.

Once again, you haven't been paying attention, oh baiter of the flame.

Southwest can't do that, nor can Guadalupe or any other holding company. Once MV signed that letter saying that Southwest was, indeed, a "successor" as defined by our Section 1 language, it binds Southwest and ALL its holding companies to our Section 1 restrictions.

One of the many restrictions in that language specifically disallows selling or transferring any company aircraft. Period. End of story. Not that I believe in any way, shape, or form that SWA plans to do any such thing.

Sorry you can't "pull a Muse", although ANY pilot wishing any such thing on another pilot is a pretty sad state of affairs. Being permanently furloughed when your airline shuts down is one of the hardest things any pilot has to endure. People lose homes, they lose families in divorce, it's a Godawful mess, and I pray you never have to experience it first-hand; many of us here at AirTran have that T-shirt already, including most of our Merger Committee members.

It'll all get done; it just takes time. Had a talk with a MEC member over the weekend and now that I know the basics of the how's and why's of what happened, I understand and am still optimistic that it will get done soon.

And yes, between the literally hundreds of grievances on file when ALPA took over, the cost of the union drive, the cost of our contract talks and the Major Contingency Fund that those talks ate into, I think the ROI for us as a group was scheduled to take 4 or 5 years. Since ALPA won't have us that long with the way things are going, they'll lose money on us, but using us as an example of how they support pilots, have had good success with the ongoing union drives at other carriers.

 

[ASADFW7]

I believe whatever they are trying to do for alpa is going to hurt Airtran more. I would figure out what is better for Airtran versus alpa. Posting that what is good for alpa is good for Airtran is a telling misdirection.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

This process is going to take years. The ALPA job killing machine will never accept any offer we put forth and I am sure we will not accept any offer they come up with.

They are going to demand the definition of "IS" is at every turn until this goes to arbitration. The lawyers are going to be the big winners in this fight.

Fence them off forever if we need to or, pull a Muse on them and be done with them.

While they are inside the fence start selling of aircraft and putting crews on the street until there is nothing left.

These hard core ALPA wackos could have our contract sooner than later but they are going to over reach and end up with nothing.

The greed of ALPA makes me want to vomit

Cheers

Another shining example of the SWA "culture" of love. That really is a low down despicable thing to wish on anyone and their family. And over what? A few seniority numbers. Shame on you.

 

[scoreboardII]

That's not what actually happened. Don't believe everything you read.

So your saying the SWAPA president is lying? Please prove your statement.

 

[Ty Webb]

Another shining example of the SWA "culture" of love. That really is a low down despicable thing to wish on anyone and their family. And over what? A few seniority numbers. Shame on you.

You aren't kidding. . . . There are are a few guys on here that really prove that money doesn't buy happiness. This "flynvixen" clown is so angry it makes you wonder which of our pilots is doing his wife. :laugh:

 

[Lear70]

I believe whatever they are trying to do for alpa is going to hurt Airtran more. I would figure out what is better for Airtran versus alpa. Posting that what is good for alpa is good for Airtran is a telling misdirection.

I don't see where anyone said this is "good for ALPA". On the contrary, ALPA is losing money out of this deal in a major way. They will never recoup the money they invested in and continue to have to spend for the AirTran pilot group.

What *WAS* said was that, in the face of losing money on the deal, ALPA continues to support AirTran pilots during the merger and that looks good to other pilot groups, such as jetBlue, who are looking at ALPA representation. That's the only "up-side" for ALPA in this whole thing...

Not sure where you got "what is good for ALPA is good for AirTran" out of any of the above posts...?

 

[stalker]

Talking about money I keep hearing you guys are already five million in the hole to alpa. Just curious where does the money come from to repay them, and the ongoing legal bill that will be run up over the next few years?

 

[DonVerita]

The ALPA job killing machine...

Factless babbling and fear mongering. You sound like Fox News.

 

[dh82dvr]

I was thinking he sounds like Keith Olbermann

:uzi:

 

[waveflyer]

Still. The point remains- ALPA will lose air tran- and "fighting" for air tran may win points at other contentious broken promise airlines- That's not us-
What motivation does ALPA have to do anything but draw this out- convince air tran pilots theyre getting screwed ( think 6000 apps filed by noon on the 1st day- 12000 total and counting- clambering for 200 slots that will all be below you. Think FO payrates north of $150k- it's ********************ing crazy to get greedy and contentious about a deal that hasn't been done yet) and keep collecting dues for as long as possible??
And then maybe they can feed some poison into the culture of a major ALPA competitor, that makes this place run.

(and make no mistake- the culture is real and a half dozen guys on anonymous forum wishing for really low taste things to happen doesn't change that- I've been preaching it from the beginning- do not confuse flightinfo w/ reality)

 

[Lear70]

Well-said, and point taken, Wave. The average line pilot certainly wants this to happen sooner rather than later, as do most of the union officials.

Attorneys always want to draw things out... More $$$ for them. Not sure in this case whether it's ALPA attorneys wanting the language change or Katz,,,

 

[waveflyer]

Thx Lear- I want you advocated for- and definitely not to be roll overs- but I like that you recognize the conflict of interest-
Just asking that you trust, but verify.

 

[redflyer65]

Well said Wave.