Airline Bailouts

[DAS at 10/250]

Let me make it clear that I am not trying to piss anybody off or start any flame bait.

Why do American taxpayers keep bailing out the airlines that are not capable of managing themselves profitabily? If a company (any industry) is not properly managed, organized, and operated then why should we keep it afloat? Should the government have kept pumping money into PanAm, Braniff, and Eastern? I don't think so. If you don't have a successful business model then you should be allowed to disappear into the pages of history and allow room for someome else (better or worse) to give it a shot.

The ideas and management behind UAL, AA, and DAL are poor and these companies are broken (same goes for Ford and Chrysler). The American public should not shoulder the financial responsibility for a company (again, any industry, like US steel) if they are not capable of running themselves profitabily. UAL, AA, and DAL should either fix themselves or be allowed to vanish.

No disrespect to the crews, rampers, gates, etc. but these companies are in bad shape.

Maybe some lessons can be learned from the LCC's. Pick a notch in the industry and be the best at it. Don't try to handle everything and be the worst at it.

Again, no disrespect to anyone, but the system is broke and some changes need to be made. Also, I understand the problems that 9/11 caused, but Southwest was hiring the next week. Most others started pink slipping.

 

[FN FAL]

Most others started pink slipping

I know it's kind of hairy out there, but if it's pink, it should be a bit slippery don't you think?

 

[DAS at 10/250]

ROTFLMAO!

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Bump.




Anybody?

 

[urflyingme?!]

not worth a response

 

[Big Duke Six]

But...

Your avatar DOES warrrant a response. NICE! Where'd you get it? She's beautiful.

Several things:

I agree with you on paper - let 'em disappear. The reality is, if they did disappear, the ripple effects would be huge. That's why the government gets involved. Also, from our point of view as pilots, imagine the effects of UAL's 6000 pilots or so (I don't have a good number - maybe more?) suddenly hitting the streets, looking for jobs? That would be ugly. Even though I was very fortunate to have recently found an OUTSTANDING job, I think it's better for everyone to keep them there in these times.

And really, think about the bitterness that seethes within United one day infiltrating every airline in the country. That stuff can be contagious, and I'd rather not live the rest of my my life in an adversarial environment like those guys do. No thanks. I have a handful of friends that work there, and can honestly say I wouldn't wish their life on anyone. That alone makes it worth it to me to keep them afloat.

No offense to anyone, seriously, just my thoughts.

 

[buzzer]

Tell me...how are us taxpayers bailing out the airlines? It sure isn't the ATSB loans.

 

[bart]

Anything to save union jobs...

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Big Duke Six: My Avatar? I'll NEVER tell! (Victoria Secret.com) I don't want to see a lot of unemployed pilots anymore than the next guy. I've got buddies at United, AA, Mesa (He voted NO), Ameristar, Cherry, etc. I'll tell ya right now I don't have an answer. Management should be held responsible some how, but I don't know how. The idea has been presented before of having a pilot's "guild", where everypilot was hired out of that pool. It would be a good way to keep your senority if you changed companies. It does suck that in almost any other profession you can build salary and experience at one company and then move to another with the same or better pay and benefits. I know this gets back into the same old agrument of unions, regionals, JO, etc.

Buzzer: I'll have to research the ATSB loan program before I can give an educated reply.

 

[RUhiring?]

The biggest transportation cash cow...

Amtrak

 

[Big Duke Six]

That's a tough one

Thanks, I'll go check it out shortly!

For some reason these days, management is never held responsible. You don't often see them taking salary hits when things get bad. We're labor, and they're "management".

A pilot's Guild? I'm not clear on how it would work, but even with all of us in a straight line, I can't see any benefit to us as pilots. Would you REQUIRE an airline to hire from the top of the list, thus "preserving" pilot pay? I don't see how you could require companies to do that, and so thus, what would prevent them from routinely hiring from the middle or the bottom, to get the most bang for their buck? So what has really been accomplished?

I'm not sure where I stand on subjects like this (i.e. a "Nat'l Seniority System"). It has some merit possibly, but also a huge downside. In this business, we all recognize that many times it is the luck of the draw as far as who is working for a particular company when times are good there, and when times are bad there. You take the good with the bad, sometimes you're lucky, sometimes you're not. I can't get excited about a plan where a guy could, after putting in X amount of years somewhere and things go south for his company, just come over to (just for talking) MY company and jump in line ahead of me in seniority. You talk about hate and discontent?

SCENARIO: You personally take a risk and get hired at a relatively new airline, spend five years there giving it your all while they are struggling, and things finally start looking up. You are getting a better schedule, your dog no longer barks at you you when you get home, etc. Then some schmo decides he likes your company (fresh management, bold ideas, good atmosphere) more than his (old management, no ideas, constantly bitter work environment). He saunters over, bumps you back down the list, and there you are. Cruddy schedules, etc. When you work harder and help your airline grow more so you can get back up again, the same things happens all over. Who would want this? Probably senior guys at failing airlines. I think it's a bad idea. It would absolutely destroy whatever is left in this business that is good. Turmoil, hate, discontent. No thanks. Can you imagine?

I'm sure, as you said, these arguments have gone on here before. I should go research them.