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AirFrame fatigue

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captnmayday

Well-known member
Joined
May 4, 2003
Posts
56
Here is the Dilema ...

One of our A/C is a C310Q with over 13000 hrs and lotsa beating ... It keeps passing the annual and the owner is refusing to get NDT test (Laser scan) on it to check the condition of the wings. Myself and the other 2 pilots are very concerned when it comes to flying that particular A/C. Is there anything we can do to have a peace of mind (Besides quitting our jobs :() ... It might be in the great shape (Which I doubt it) but there is no way to verify ... (oh, did I say we have lotsa smoking rivets?) I know FAA is working on an AD for 300 series but it will not be out for another year


Your input is greatly appreciated,
Capt
 
Laser scan testing? You sure about that??

Let's back up a little. Obviously you've never flown or worked with high time airframes. Obviously you're not familiar with the maintenance program for this airplane, or interested enough to find out what it is that you're talking about. So where does that leave you?

Bottom line; if you're not comfortable with the airplane, don't fly it. Period. No discussion. No justification. You have a legal and moral obligation to refuse to fly it if you don't feel comfortable with it, end of story. Comprende?

There's no "laser scan" for that wing. You may be thinking of eddy current testing. However, perhaps you should start by sitting down with the maintenance manual to determine what is actually required for the airplane.

If you're operating under Part 91, then the aircraft is operated on-condition. What you see is what you get, and you're subject only to the inspection requirements spelled out in 14 CFR 91.409.

If you're operating under Part 135, you're also subject to any other approved maintenance program, including regular 100 hour inspections. You may or may not be aware that there is no difference in the scope and detail of the 100 hour inspection, and the annual inspection. If you're only undergoing 100 hour inspections, then you're also undergoing the full scope and detail of an annual inspection every 100 hours.

Are there particular spar inspections or wing inspections detailed by cycles, landings, hours, callendar time, or other criteria for your airplane, by the manufacturer? Have you checked?

You mentioned smoking rivets. How have you determined if it's the rivet that's smoking, or if it's grease or other substances leaking at the rivet hole? A true smoking rivet is caused by fretting corrosion. Fluid, grease, fuel, etc, leaking past a rivet is not a smoking rivet, but may appear similiar.

Are the rivets in question on the wing? At what point on the wing, and what is their significance?

If you have any question about the airplane, don't fly it. You take full responsibility for the airplane, including it's airworthiness, when you fly it. If you didn't know, when it comes out of maintenance, a mechanic may approve an airplane for return to service, but it's the pilot who actually returns it to service. That would be you, and in so doing, you take responsibility for accepting and approving all the work that has been done to that airplane, including agreeing with, ratifying, and accepting responsibility for all work, airworthiness directives, and other compliance required. Are you comfortable accepting that responsibility with the airplane in it's present condition? No? Then do not fly it.

I took a flight for a company last week in a medium turboprop airplane. During one leg of the trip, toward the end of the trip, I found a line of rivets attaching a wing skin to the spar cap, fretted away, with the skin lifted up along the rivet line. I grounded the airplane, and the following day made arrangements for a repair station to do a spar inspection, full eddy current workup, and repairs.

A few years ago, I encountered two small cracks in the underskin of the wing of a large airplane I was flying. Subsequent testing of that wing revealed via ultrasonic testing a crack extending the full circumference of the wing, including through all major supporting structures. Had I or others been willing to continue flying that airplane, there is no doubt in my mind but that the wing would have failed within the next flight or two.

Those assertions are further strengthened in the knowledge that the same airplane was destroyed a few years later when both wings did separate in flight.

Don't screw around...you don't feel comfortable, you don't fly it, period. Forget weather your job is at stake. Your job is meaningless in the face of safety; safety first, profitability a distant third. You decide what comes next.
 
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16,000

I think I saw a Piper Lance that was an old Ameriflight plane with 16,000 hours on it. I think I saw it for sell from barron thomas for 40,000 bucks. Not to sure if it was 16,000 tho I will have to check
 
Avbug, jease man, thanks for that post. I don't know if it helped the original poster any, but it sure made me feel better about my recent actions. I just quit my job because the 30K hour metro I was gonna have to fly was a death trap, and I seriously thought every time I shut the cabin door, I would never put a foot back on the ground alive again. All kinds of stuff was falling off this airplane due to the years of pilot and maintence neglect and abuse. Literally stuff falling off this plane. Too much to describe but your post reminded me of why I passed up a type rating and turbine PIC to still be alive today. Thanks man
 
SP,

I've quit jobs over maintenance disagreements, and threatened to quit others. And turned down one or two when I learned what the company was flying and how they were maintaining it. Aside from flying and other duties, I also turn wrenches and have a mx background. I'm very critical concerning maintenance issues. I've seen things on airplanes that most probably wouldn't believe, starting with wiring made from household lamp cord to landing gear held together with hose clamps, and beyond. Aircraft flying with spars cracked completely through in several places, making popping noises when flaps were applied. And much more.

I have no tolerance for poor maintenance. Any pilot is much better off washing dishes at a local diner than risking his life, that of his passengers, those of folks on the ground, and last and also least, his certificates.

With most operators I've interviewed with, from small to large, the first question I've asked in the interview is weather I'll be allowd to get in the shop and get my hands dirty...even if it's just a little. Many operators have had me in the shop quite a bit...but I want to see what I'm flying, and how it's being taken care of. You might be shocked how far it goes, even with major carriers (the MD-83 at Alaska was a good example of that). Take nothing for granted, and never compromise your standard on maintenance. Once you'e given up an inch, you'll never get it back.
 

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