Aircraft certified for known icing??

[Bleed Air]

Other than looking in the AFM, is there a published list somewhere, by the FAA maybe that shows all the aircraft and models or serial numbers that if equiped are certified for Known Icing.
looking primarily for light twins.
Thanks

 

[jetdriven]

there is a cockpit placard stating "this aircraft is certified for flight into known icing conditions"

aircraft built before 1974 there is no "known icing" cert. They arent prohibited, either I think. 1974 and after they either are or arent. If a piston twin is for sale they shoudl advertise KICE. It is very valuable.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

KNOWN ICING......its good to have but never trust it. Stay clear of that **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**

my baron is certified. But i stear clear, even though it seems i blow the boots every 20 hour of flying or so.

 

[NJA Capt]

Be very careful when looking at "deiced" singles and light twins. Most are "not certified" even though they have boots and hot windscreens. Including most Barons.

 

[jetdriven]

right. even if a person installs all of the factory deice equipment after it was built then it still is not "known icing certified". nobody will know unless you have a distress situation then you're looking at a violation or worse.

Correct me if Im wrong but I think the STC for TKS systems liquid deice system might be K-ICE, but only if you fulfill the STC? Anyone know about this?

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

my baron is certified. According to the POH.

my switches include
Pitot heat
fuel vent heat
stall warn heat
prop heat
windshiled heat
boots --man/auto

 

[NJA Capt]

my baron is certified. According to the POH.

my switches include
Pitot heat
fuel vent heat
stall warn heat
prop heat
windshiled heat
boots --man/auto

It has been a while since I flew Barons, but here's an interesting footnote. All the above items are found on the "certified" Barons, but they are found on "NON-certified Barons also. The difference is the boots located between the fuselage and the engines. If there are no boots there, it isn't certified. These "inner" boots were first seen on the P-Baron.

 

[Lrjtcaptain]

Yeah, that is what i learned at simcom too......you see alot of those barons out there but the owners remove the hot plate and mess all that up.

I wish i had a P baron but i do like my new style cockpit.
1984 + they made them into kingair transition aircraft. More like turbine style which i just enjoy that lay out better. Just wish i had TC and Pressureization

Mine does have the boot between the engine and the fusalage

 

[flydog]

holy cow you have to go to Simcom to learn to fly a Baron

 

[jetdriven]

The difference is the boots located between the fuselage and the engines. If there are no boots there, it isn't certified.

even if you later install these boots it doesnt make it certified. the factory only can do that.

 

[Fr8Dog]

quote:
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The difference is the boots located between the fuselage and the engines. If there are no boots there, it isn't certified.
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Not exactly true. Our BE99's don't have boots between the fuselage and the engines and they are certified for k-ice.

 

[SkyWestCRJPilot]

When I flew for Flight Express they had some of their C-210's certified for deicing though an STC with TKS fluid. When they were certifying the STC the FAA said that since the system was electrically driven that a second alternator needed to be installed as a backup incase the main alternator failed. The bottom line is that the FAA has to approve an airplane to be certified for flight into known icing conditions, whether it be through the factory or through an STC.

 

[NJA Capt]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The difference is the boots located between the fuselage and the engines. If there are no boots there, it isn't certified.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Not exactly true. Our BE99's don't have boots between the fuselage and the engines and they are certified for k-ice.

Read the whole paragraph please. We were talking about Barons, Not BE99s.

 

[Bleed Air]

To the person who stated that aircraft before 1974 aren't certified for known icing?
Is that just for light twins?
What about DC-3's Beech 18's and Convair's, I've seen lots of those with de-icing equipment and flogging through the ice in winter??
Or were you just refering to light twins?
Do the manufat. publish a list of serial numbers that are certified?
Thanks

 

[Timebuilder]

I have heard the "inner boot" discussion applied to a great many airplanes, and it is not always the determinant. The AFM will spell out the capability provided by the manufacturer or the FAA approved STC.

One of the Senecas I used to fly has several of the required items, but no STC. The purchase of the STC would add fuel tank vent and prop governor icing protection, but the cost was astronomical, and unecessary for our purposes.

Summary: you can check the AFM and discover the "legal" aspect of the aircraft, but the truth is you are better off staying out of icing, no matter how many boots or switches you have.

 

[jetdriven]

To the person who stated that aircraft before 1974 aren't certified for known icing?
Is that just for light twins?
What about DC-3's Beech 18's and Convair's, I've seen lots of those with de-icing equipment and flogging through the ice in winter??
Or were you just refering to light twins?
Do the manufat. publish a list of serial numbers that are certified?


Im not sure. as far as my knowedge about this matter is private small planes, single and twin. Certainly airliners are known icing.

 

[Timebuilder]

I'm sure avbug will have a more definitive opinion, but from what I been able to gather, there was simply no "regulatory" requirement to certify an aircraft for known icing before 1974. At that point, regulations went into effect that mandated a difference between these two standards of aircraft certification.

 

[cjh]

Looking for something else and came across this thread.

Regarding certification of older aircraft, my 1969 Piper Navajo is certified for flight into known icing. Here's the info from the AFM.

"When this airplane was delivered it contained the properly installed equipment listed in the rear of this manual and, therefore, was satisfoctory for the types of operation indicated below by an asterisk.

3.a. Light to moderate icing after de-icing and icing equpment listed on page for operating in icing conditions has been installed in accordance with Piper drawings or in an FAA approved manner.
b. Light to moderate icing."

It then goes on to say that changing any of the installed equipment may prevent it from being used as originally approved. Under the equipment list for various flight conditions it continues with:

"Light to Moderate Icing
1. All equpment required for night IFR
2. Wing and tail de-icing system
3. Heated windshield
4. Static wicks
5. Shielded antennas
6. Heated pitot tube
7. Propeller de-icing
8. Elevator horn de-icing boot"


The "FAA approved manner" language in the first quote certainly sounds like there was regulatory language back then.

 

[Timebuilder]

I agree.

I was told (and of course ANY discussion of regulations between two pilots can be considered guesswork, at best) that the regulatory phrase "approved for flight into known icing" was part of a new approach in the regualtions, and that after 1974 the placard began to appear indicationg approval or disapproval for flight into known icing conditions, and language went into effect that determined the standards required.

What say you, Avbug? Was I given some bad information?

 

[cjh]

Upon further reading!

Here's some more info from my AFM, which certainly continues to point to the fact that the regs were there before 1974.

"Pilots are warned that the following lists are based on the FAR's as of January 11, 1966, and that they are responsible for complying with amendments issued after this date". The lists that follow include day and night VFR and IFR, flight in positive control areas, and Light to Moderate Icing. (BTW, the AFM also specifically prohibits flight through known or forecast heavy icing!!)

On the subject of placards, my AFM has a host of them but none pertaining to icing. Perhaps that was a later modification contributing to the belief that the reg itself went into effect in the 70's.