Air Wisconsin, we hardly knew ye

[rightrudder]

And, I will NOT under any circumstances fly 70 seaters for 50 seat wages. I'm lucky, because I do have another career to fall back on, and even though I may be the only one to vote no on the 70-for-50 compromise, at least I will know I did the right thing.

So, If AWAC gets 70 seat aircraft and you would have to fly them, you will quit?

 

[BE99chick]

Exactly. I have other options and I'll exercise them. I will fly them for 70 seat pay, but not 50.

I'm even willing to PM you with my name.

I may be the only one...oh well, easy come easy go.

 

[surplus1]

surplus1, you are obviously educated.

I can tell because your grammar and spelling are flawless, and I see that you have edited your posts, probably for spelling, grammer and content.

So...what career did you leave to become a pilot? Law, accounting, medicine, management, education, or something else?

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I'm educated; I also have an undergraduate degree but nothing special. I'm just not as chronologically "young" as many of you and am very close to the end of professional flying. I did not leave another career to become a pilot. In fact I've been earning my living in an airplane ever since I joined the USAF a long time ago, and as an airline pilot (I did not retire from the military) for most of my adult life. It just wasn't all with the same airline. I've done my share of managing and educating over the years but always in the field of aviation. I'm just a pilot who does other things, as opposed to someone else who also flies.

And why do you stay? I suppose it's for the same reason I do...days off and an easier time than the 9-5 grind, and a few other reasons.

Well, I'm sure it won't impress you but it isn't the days off nor is it an objection to the grind. Simply put, I have stayed because I love what I do. The "people", the places and the way of life, and then of course the aluminium tubes, the clouds, the sky. In spite of the furloughs, the failed companys, the politics and the often intransigent "union", I like what I've done and have no regrets. My present airline is not my first but it will be my last.

When this is "over" I will move on to something else but I'll not forget and will try to stay involved in some way.

Thank you for your posts...they are realistic and enlightend.

Again you're too generous. Realistic I'll give you but enlightened .... that's a bit of a stretch.

Regards.

 

[nimtz]

So, If AWAC gets 70 seat aircraft and you would have to fly them, you will quit?

I wish they had her type at CHQ, Mesa, and Skywest back in '03. It's called RESPECT for the profession and being able to see the forest through the trees. I loathe the day my company joins the list of sellouts for growth.

 

[WhiteCloud]

So, I'm not blaming you for anything. I'm just asking you to accept reality. The days when anything could be done on a man's "word" are long gone and have no place in today's American business practices.

It depends on who you choose to associate with. You're speaking to someone that has a wide variety of business interests inside and outside of aviation and has associated with many of the same people for decades. Perhaps UAL and some big corporations can muscle the people they have financial releationships with, but, in my little world, a persons word makes a huge difference. All it takes is one twisting of the facts (notice I didn't say "lie") to get you put out of some circles. I'm quite sure that the lawyers at UAL and similar companies make much more money than I do, but I question their "success" in life.

 

[TWAER]

I wish they had her type at CHQ, Mesa, and Skywest back in '03. It's called RESPECT for the profession and being able to see the forest through the trees. I loathe the day my company joins the list of sellouts for growth.

At least I didn't take a 30% or even higher pay cut to "save" my job. I guess all those major airline pilots are really thinking about everyone else in the industry. Hey, if you want to be fair, you better throw in Airways on that list because they are flying the 170 for lower wages than us. Oh, how bout FLYI and JetBlue, I guess they are sellouts too. I you are going to list airlines, you better not just select the ones you hate to make a point. Your spin is good but not accurate.

 

[nimtz]

At least I didn't take a 30% or even higher pay cut to "save" my job. I guess all those major airline pilots are really thinking about everyone else in the industry. Hey, if you want to be fair, you better throw in Airways on that list because they are flying the 170 for lower wages than us. Oh, how bout FLYI and JetBlue, I guess they are sellouts too. I you are going to list airlines, you better not just select the ones you hate to make a point. Your spin is good but not accurate.

I got plenty of gripes with what Jetblue thinks is an acceptable wage on the 190 ie the DC-9 of the new era. Good luck to those guys house hunting on Long Island. The mainline guys still make an adequate living, so taking 30% is what it takes to save your job at that level sometimes. That has happened plenty of times at the majors as the cycles of torn up and down. At our level we are still trying to correct years of substandard compensation.

Now do you think that you and I make an adequate living? Maybe if you live in Indy, but my CHQ buddy living here in New York begs to differ. The problem is the three carriers I mentioned where the trailblazers that set the precedent down this poor road we are on today towards 70 seaters taking a huge chunk of domestic flying. I don't 'hate' any airline, but you need to realize where the problem started and festered.

Essentially management said the 70 seaters are made by the same manufacturers as the 50 seaters so the pilots should be paid the same and the three mentioned pilot groups bought it hook, line, and sinker. With ASA, Comair, and Air Willy at least you recieved a significant override for operating the bigger stuff, which let's face it only serves to take work from the decently compensated mainline guys.

From then on it has evolved so that no pilot group gets anything significant for the 70+ seaters. That is why you see Mid Atlantic and PSA pay so sh!tty for those airplanes and don't think it didn't have a role in Jetblue's decision. The losers in all this are you and I. I hope there is a solution to this problem and it is on you guys to work on it when you go back to the table in a few years.

I won't thump my chest and say XJet is any better whether you 'hate' us or not. The only way we'll get 70 seaters is if we take the 50 seat pay scales. The fact is it is one terrible downward spiral that began at the three previously mentioned carriers.

 

[jbDC9]

The facts are it is one terrible downward spiral...

Oh man, thanks... you didn't use the phrase "race to the bottom". I'm so tired of reading that cliched line over and over and over again. That and "lowering the bar". Are there any college professor types out there that can come up with some shiny new catch phrases that can be endlessly tossed back and forth?

 

[737 Pylt]

Oh man, thanks... you didn't use the phrase "race to the bottom". I'm so tired of reading that cliched line over and over and over again. That and "lowering the bar". Are there any college professor types out there that can come up with some shiny new catch phrases that can be endlessly tossed back and forth?

I'm not a college professor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

How about "IN THE TOILET!"
737

 

[DiverDriver]

I'm not a college professor, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night.

How about "IN THE TOILET!"
737

"Lowest common denominator"? It's got a math term in it!

No? Ok...we'll work on it.

<mumbles> sumpin catchy...sumpin catchy...