Air Wisconsin, we hardly knew ye

[HockleyPilot]

Thinking isn't good, it hurts

I am excited, this is my first post to this site after reading it for over a year. First I must say Kudos to viewers and writers involved on this site. Most, and I use term sincerely, people's opinions are valid and have bright points. I really enjoy them and others, even if I disagree.

After reading this post, and the last poster's reply I was thinking something. Most of us are hypocrites. (myself included.)

Yes, the regionals have become a lowest bidder-all-out-war. Do I like it? Negative. Is it reality. Yes. Just like the high executives running legacy carriers into the ground and still getting their millions in incentive pay for a job well done. NO ONE in management today is willing to accept responsibility for their actions. But this post isn't about mainline carriers.

We gripe at regionals for being whores, no? But I was thinking about it and when our schools are being built for our little ones, how is that process conducted? There is an add for sealed bids and it is given to the lowest bidder. I, as a taxpayer, am happy, for I do not want my taxes to go up because I want a "less cost efficient airline, eh contractor". And yes, in some cases with cheaper, you do get what you pay for. (Some school's are evidence).
But we see it all around. Bridges, Federal buildings, roads, freeways, shipping, cell phones, cars...heck why do I buy groceries at Walmart? It sure isn't cause I like the Great Value peas and green beans, it's cause Walton had a vision of winning in a capitalist society. Winning meant lowering costs. Did the competition like it? Ask them if you can still find some around.

We gripe at companies for lowing their costs, but we do the same thing individually at home. So is what is good for the goose, good for the gander? Hmmm...

My point is the occurings in this day in time are unfortunaly becoming "standard". While we get all upset (some of us) over things happening in our industry when it hits home or our job, think about all the other situations where the role is reversed. Or we could just blame management. And that is much, much easier.

Not trying to start a fight.

 

[WhiteCloud]

Surplus and Hockey....... I don't really disagree with anything you guys said. The bottom line is that the airline business is not really a good business to be in. We can mix words by nitpicking my use of "partner" but maybe I should have used other words like "associate" or "contractor" in describing the relationship of UAL to AWAC. (While I don't recall the actual source I think UAL and ACA did use the word "partners" in their promotional stuff, but thats beside the point). UAL word isn't worth a whole lot either way.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus and Hockey....... I don't really disagree with anything you guys said. The bottom line is that the airline business is not really a good business to be in. We can mix words by nitpicking my use of "partner" but maybe I should have used other words like "associate" or "contractor" in describing the relationship of UAL to AWAC. (While I don't recall the actual source I think UAL and ACA did use the word "partners" in their promotional stuff, but thats beside the point). UAL word isn't worth a whole lot either way.

I wasn't really picking on you or your choice of words White Cloud, I was picking on regional pilot groups in general. We have a view of the relationship that is unrealistic and therefore we are often dissapointed. The managements of regional carriers are dissapointed as well and they should know better for they don't have any "word" either.

I'm probably a super cynic but there aren't any business enterprises whose "word" is worth anything. Ethics is not really a part of the American business model. Money takes precedence over everything, especially ethics. The so-called corporate scandals that have been made public to date are just the tip of the iceberg. If the truth were ever revealed you would undoubtedly find they are all cut from the same cloth. The only thing you can believe is what you have in a binding contract and the corporate lawyers will do their best to get around that whenever they can.

So, I'm not blaming you for anything. I'm just asking you to accept reality. The days when anything could be done on a man's "word" are long gone and have no place in today's American business practices.

That's sad, but it's true. Caveat emptor.

 

[BE99chick]

So why are you flying...

surplus1, you are obviously educated.

I can tell because your grammar and spelling are flawless, and I see that you have edited your posts, probably for spelling, grammer and content.

So...what career did you leave to become a pilot? Law, accounting, medicine, management, education, or something else?

And why do you stay? I suppose it's for the same reason I do...days off and an easier time than the 9-5 grind, and a few other reasons. I suspect you and I both have some alternative career to fall back on, when the furlough notice comes.

I also won't fly for dirt wages. And, I will NOT under any circumstances fly 70 seaters for 50 seat wages. I'm lucky, because I do have another career to fall back on, and even though I may be the only one to vote no on the 70-for-50 compromise, at least I will know I did the right thing.

I wish everybody else had the same options I have. It would make this nasty fight go away.

Thank you for your posts...they are realistic and enlightend.

 

[Mel Sharples]

We all suffer from the illusion that we belong to a union of brotherhood. That is but another stupid idea. The people who run the "union" have the same mindset as the management of the legacy carriers, i.e., control and use the idiots; abuse them when you can; discard them when you can't. There is no "brotherhood" and there never was. We have allowed ourselves to be suckered into that idea and played like fiddles at the hands of our so-called brothers. It's been going on for well over a decade, but we still can't figure it out and we still won't protect ourselves. Once again we think we are "partners"; once again we are not.

Smell the coffee!

As much as I hate to admit this, you are right. It is hard to accept, but you are right. (Although you do come on a little strong, but maybe that's what it will take.)

God, admitting that is like admitting I did something dumb to my dad. I am smarter for it yet I still feel so stupid.

Thanks for sharing your insight.

 

[rightrudder]

And, I will NOT under any circumstances fly 70 seaters for 50 seat wages. I'm lucky, because I do have another career to fall back on, and even though I may be the only one to vote no on the 70-for-50 compromise, at least I will know I did the right thing.

So, If AWAC gets 70 seat aircraft and you would have to fly them, you will quit?

 

[BE99chick]

Exactly. I have other options and I'll exercise them. I will fly them for 70 seat pay, but not 50.

I'm even willing to PM you with my name.

I may be the only one...oh well, easy come easy go.

 

[surplus1]

surplus1, you are obviously educated.

I can tell because your grammar and spelling are flawless, and I see that you have edited your posts, probably for spelling, grammer and content.

So...what career did you leave to become a pilot? Law, accounting, medicine, management, education, or something else?

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I'm educated; I also have an undergraduate degree but nothing special. I'm just not as chronologically "young" as many of you and am very close to the end of professional flying. I did not leave another career to become a pilot. In fact I've been earning my living in an airplane ever since I joined the USAF a long time ago, and as an airline pilot (I did not retire from the military) for most of my adult life. It just wasn't all with the same airline. I've done my share of managing and educating over the years but always in the field of aviation. I'm just a pilot who does other things, as opposed to someone else who also flies.

And why do you stay? I suppose it's for the same reason I do...days off and an easier time than the 9-5 grind, and a few other reasons.

Well, I'm sure it won't impress you but it isn't the days off nor is it an objection to the grind. Simply put, I have stayed because I love what I do. The "people", the places and the way of life, and then of course the aluminium tubes, the clouds, the sky. In spite of the furloughs, the failed companys, the politics and the often intransigent "union", I like what I've done and have no regrets. My present airline is not my first but it will be my last.

When this is "over" I will move on to something else but I'll not forget and will try to stay involved in some way.

Thank you for your posts...they are realistic and enlightend.

Again you're too generous. Realistic I'll give you but enlightened .... that's a bit of a stretch.

Regards.

 

[nimtz]

So, If AWAC gets 70 seat aircraft and you would have to fly them, you will quit?

I wish they had her type at CHQ, Mesa, and Skywest back in '03. It's called RESPECT for the profession and being able to see the forest through the trees. I loathe the day my company joins the list of sellouts for growth.

 

[WhiteCloud]

So, I'm not blaming you for anything. I'm just asking you to accept reality. The days when anything could be done on a man's "word" are long gone and have no place in today's American business practices.

It depends on who you choose to associate with. You're speaking to someone that has a wide variety of business interests inside and outside of aviation and has associated with many of the same people for decades. Perhaps UAL and some big corporations can muscle the people they have financial releationships with, but, in my little world, a persons word makes a huge difference. All it takes is one twisting of the facts (notice I didn't say "lie") to get you put out of some circles. I'm quite sure that the lawyers at UAL and similar companies make much more money than I do, but I question their "success" in life.