Air Wisconsin TA Passes

[Wiskey Driver]

Re: choices have consequences

Primarily for WD......I think it is funny how AW is blaming Mesa. Mesa has to deal with what the moajority voted. What does that have to do with Wisconsin? You guys crapping on Mesa pilots... why? They did what they had to do it sounds like, you guys are not happy with what you did so point to MESA as your scapegoat? Let's be responsible here. What did they do to you guys? They work for a different regional. You blame Mesa. They did not set the standard COMAIR set the standard for how to do it right, maybe MESA went the other way but they still have there jobs. You guys followed MESA's path like trail horses. Don't blame anyone but yourselves. You guys should apologize for crapping on the forefathers _COMAIR trying to make things better for all but instead you guys decided to take the other route. Don't blame just reap the benefits that you AW pilots voted for and no one else. Did you guys have the backbone that comair had? I don't think so but sure is wishful thinking now huh?!

Hyperboy, you missed the big picture here. No worriers though I will explain.

UAL in serious trouble no doubt about it, SKYWEST, ACA and us here at AWAC all UEX and are paid on a fee for departure. lets just say that the cost per departure is $3000 and in that all labor costs are accounted for. Now enter mesa with their industry trailing contract who bids to do the same job for $1800. The bean counters that ual hired need only look at this and simply start a race to the bottom contest by threatning to give all of the express flying to mesa. If they had just simply returned the first offer they would have recieved another more favorable contract, instead they lowered the standard making it extremely difficult to justify the current levels. I myself voted no because I did not believe the tactic. I won't apologize to mesa for bringing the bar below where it was before. We all (EVERY REGIONAL PILOT) suffer as a result of that contract and the other foot still has yet to drop...

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey WD,
Our last contract took forever because it was an almost total re-write. The next contract will be much faster, with mainly the wages to negotiate and some work rules. The work rules are the hardest to get back and they did not change a lot with the new UAL caused TA. The MEC WILL start to negotiate the next contract before the contract is up so we will have a new one when this one ends. The pilot group will not stand for waiting on the next one, especially when we will have waited eight years. The company and MEC acknowledged this during the negotiations for our concessionary TA. We WILL get every bit of back pay if it takes longer. This is why I think the ten year argument does not hold water.
later cheez

I do hope you are right cheez, I sure hope you are right.

WD.

 

[DBacks]

Ok dude, I think we all understand now after the umpteenth time... you voted NO, right?

I myself voted no because I did not believe the tactic

 

[WileE]

WD is mad.

He has every right to be if he voted no. I tend to think he is a little off in blaming everything on the contract Mesa signed. AW would be in even worse footing if Mesa hadn't signed the contract. At least he didn't have a non-union Freedom putting in a bid for all AW's flying. Since the prior Mesa contract was worse and it would be at least a year before a new one could have been signed, it's obvious that management at AW could have played the same card regardless, it just would have been a king instead of a jack.

Anyway, you throw some numbers around there about AW bidding $3000 per departure and Mesa bidding $1800. I'm unaware of the bid so those may or may not be the numbers. But honestly, how much of that $1200 difference can be blamed on pilot salaries? For an average flight how much less is a Mesa flight crew of the same seniority level paid than an AW flight crew for the same flight? $15? $20? That hardly adds up to the entire difference. The fact that Mesa pilots are paid a little lower than yours doesn't really make a huge difference in the long run. (And how much lower is that hourly now BTW?)

Mesa has always been a lower bidder mostly because it is willing to accept less profit than the other airlines. While other regionals are bidding 5 percent above cost, JO is willing to run with a margin of something like 2 percent above cost.

I am not gloating over AW's failure to fight for a non-concessionary contract. It's especially sad that they accepted this for eight years. They had the anchor of UAL's situation weighing them down just like Mesa had USAir's and AMW's financial situation as well as the Freedom situation weighing us down. It's just the nature of things that when it comes down to it, the majority of people will vote selfishly so that bills get paid.

 

[Beechnut]

That's BS, No cuts yet.....

You know for certain that there won't be any?

I'd like a gander at your crystal ball some time.

S.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Re: WD is mad.

Anyway, you throw some numbers around there about AW bidding $3000 per departure and Mesa bidding $1800. I'm unaware of the bid so those may or may not be the numbers. But honestly, how much of that $1200 difference can be blamed on pilot salaries? For an average flight how much less is a Mesa flight crew of the same seniority level paid than an AW flight crew for the same flight? $15? $20? That hardly adds up to the entire difference. The fact that Mesa pilots are paid a little lower than yours doesn't really make a huge difference in the long run. (And how much lower is that hourly now BTW?)

WileE,

Keeping in mind that those numbers were not in anyway acurate, that was just an example. The thought that 15-20 dollars doesn't make a difference but when you take 7% of 80,000 and 9% of 100,000 then it does make a huge dent. Now lets look at the average of about 3000 per pilot per yr, get the picture? it can really mount up.

WD.

 

[maddog805]

yeah

You know for certain that there won't be any?

I'd like a gander at your crystal ball some time.

S.

Yeah that's what I said:

No cuts YET

 

[Beantown]

Re: Re: choices have consequences

Hyperboy, you missed the big picture here. No worriers though I will explain.

UAL in serious trouble no doubt about it, SKYWEST, ACA and us here at AWAC all UEX and are paid on a fee for departure. lets just say that the cost per departure is $3000 and in that all labor costs are accounted for. Now enter mesa with their industry trailing contract who bids to do the same job for $1800. The bean counters that ual hired need only look at this and simply start a race to the bottom contest by threatning to give all of the express flying to mesa. If they had just simply returned the first offer they would have recieved another more favorable contract, instead they lowered the standard making it extremely difficult to justify the current levels. I myself voted no because I did not believe the tactic. I won't apologize to mesa for bringing the bar below where it was before. We all (EVERY REGIONAL PILOT) suffer as a result of that contract and the other foot still has yet to drop...

WD.

WD, Here's the thing you didn't get back then and maybe you will get now. This whole mess has to do with Freedumb and the pilots that went there in the first place. Mesa's contract is the way it is because Freedumb was taking all there flying. Mesa ended up taking the scope over money to end this threat. At the time you didn't want to here is. It didn't matter. Mesa should have held the line no matter and if it ment them losing there flying and there jobs so be. Then your company givens in and you say it was because of Mesa. Why is this any better? (I know you voted no, I didn't even have a vote) The fact is you look like a fool and I'm loving it. -Bean BTW, I've been hanging on my portch waiting for you. Didn't think you would show. You have a big mouth and now you have filled it with your big foot.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Beantown,

English PLEASE!! I could make out nothing you really said except the lame insult you attempted to throw... Your PORCH WTF did that mean?????? Ok education time bean schools open on yo A$$. 1st if freedom was the real threat why weren't they sent packing once the contract was signed, so here again is the message you send out "HEY IF YOU WANT TO BUST UP A UNION JOB ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS WORK FOR THIS ALTER-EGO AND YOU NEVER HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT UNION PROBLEMS BECAUSE WE WILL BE ACCEPTED NO MATTER WHAT"!! 2nd that low ball pay scale has everyone running to jam up their pilots because mesa can do it for minimum wages. 3rd. You asked how is what AWAC did different than what mesa did, are you kidding me?? Here is one for you, would we even be in this position or having this conversation if there was no LOW BALLER????? 5th You are right I voted NO. Why, because fuk mesa and you too for that matter for you lame a$$ attempt to clown... Son if you are going to come at me you had better come correct or not at all.

NEXT

WD.

 

[blott]

If mesa had gone on strike and their flying was transfered to freedumd, then this would be "struck" work, and freedumb would be blacklisted bye EVERYONE, infact if anyone picked up these routes it would be struck work--SCABS. no one (except the original freedumb scabs) would even consider taking those routes or aircraft. What a bunch of B_tches.

Chq is going thru the same thing with republic. We are getting VERY near a strike vote. company is playing hardball-"look what mesa is doing" "we would love to take consessions from the pilots" "if there was a stike, chq would close its doors immediately" but, one again, it will be struck work-scabs. There are some at chq who sound like the MESA b_tches, but we are trying to educate them...

Wish us luck...

B

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

No, son I became a jet CA in less then two years, and only set FO for 10 months. How long was your sorry a$$ in FO. Did you need a little extra time as FO to get it all figured out?

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Blott

Just a question, do you really believe you will be release by the Gov. to strike? Please go into depth on how this strike will happen.
You can vote your strike vote in 20 times and doesn’t mean $hit, because the Gov. has all the say.

 

[blott]

Lightning,

You have a good point about the Gov. having the power to "veto" the strike. But I think a strike would have to have a huge impact on the economy for the Pres. to do this. I don't think CHQ striking would disrupt the nation enough to warrant a veto. They let Comair strike. If we voted to strike for the 15th or 16th time, and were blocked, I think this would also put some pressure on the Gov. and the company.

NO one wants to strike, a strike vote is the only way to legally have a work action. It doesn't mean you strike, but it shows you mean business. Also you don't have to "shut it down" in a strike. You can strike specific airports, specific flights, only at certain times during the day-like no flights from 12:00 to 14:00-then let the company figure out that one....You would still be getting a paycheck, and the company would be getting "some" revenue, but the codeshare parents would be PISSED...

When the negotiatons hit the wall you have no other choice but to threaten. You need to give your MEC some teeth, what other power do they have? If you don't vote to strike the company has you by the balls and knows it... and you know what happens then...

B

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Hey thanks for the intelligent response Blott

My point is Mesa just like CHQ, I think would not be able to go on strike because it could damage U. What did U get from the Gov a huge 1 billon dollar loan. I don’t think Bush would let anything, even a minor upset happen. According to the BK filing for U CHQ and Mesa are big players with the recovery. Now AWA also received money from the gov. If we could of striked we would hurt AWA real bad, another reason we would of not had a prayer.
Also good luck killing Republic, you will find that there is a lot of people, that will have no problem flying for Republic.

 

[maddog805]

WOW!!!!

No, son I became a jet CA in less then two years, and only set FO for 10 months. How long was your sorry a$$ in FO. Did you need a little extra time as FO to get it all figured out?

WOW!, an actual jet captain. That's cool. I am truely impressed.