Air Wisconsin TA Passes

[inthegoo]

We have so many FU@KING WH@RES in this business!!!

Yes, I am talkin to you AS$HOLE!!!!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Best of luck to all my fellow UAX buddies at ACA, AWAC, and Skywest. You've all got a tough road ahead, thanks to a willingness by pilots at other carriers to work for less than industry average in the name of explosive growth and quicker upgrades (uh, look Beavis...it's a jet...that's like cool).

Whatever...

KAK

Enjoying being out of the rat race that is today's airline industry, but like a true addict ready to get my next fix.

 

[g159av8tor]

I figure I will be making the same if not more than I am now two and a half years from the date of this contract.

If I read you correctly: You, for example make 35K this year and in 2-2.5 years you'll again be making 35K a year. Now, you've lost money due to the steps back you've taken in pay, the fact that your contract makes no provisions to recoup that pay is money forever lost and inflation is about 3% per year. So, in 2-2.5 years (about 2005 when, again, you'll be making your original salary), 35K will be worth about 32.9K. So, your statement is technically correct, but your argument is off-base. Sorry.

Tailwinds...

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Yep. Isn't that what the Mesa guys said? And you, and Whiskey Driver, and others (mcpickle, etc.) screamed bloody murder. And called them all sorts of names. And bragged about what YOU would do, how you would never settle, you would shut the f*cker down. No ultimately, you just "did what you had to do".

Now, I'll just sit back while you all crawfish and tell us how "this is different". It's not really different. It just exposes you all for the pathetic hypocrites that you truly are.

You know what trainer FU!!! many of us including me vote no on this crap. Fear is a very powerful tool it worked on mesa and it worked on many here. There were plenty of us willing to stand up for the industry and fight this thing but lets face it, anytime you have a group of people willing to do the same job you do for much much less, you strike fear in those who have no ambition to better the industry. I guess in the end many are happy just putting on a uniform!!!

That being said, I can no longer bash those for doing what many in my own house have done.

WD.

 

[Cardinal]

YGBSM!

When I saw that concessionary packages were being pondered at UAX I thought the idea to be so absurd that it didn't even merit concern. Regional pilots taking concessions? The same pilots that make less than the ticket agents? The same pilots living on top of each other in what should only be a crashpad so as to buy the top-shelf ramen noodles? Surely this would be a dry hole....Yet I stand corrected. We have Regional FO's lining up for 8 year paycuts?!. Only in aviation. Nothing ever makes sense anymore.

 

[Rottweiller]

If I read you correctly: You, for example make 35K this year and in 2-2.5 years you'll again be making 35K a year. Now, you've lost money due to the steps back you've taken in pay, the fact that your contract makes no provisions to recoup that pay is money forever lost and inflation is about 3% per year. So, in 2-2.5 years (about 2005 when, again, you'll be making your original salary), 35K will be worth about 32.9K. So, your statement is technically correct, but your argument is off-base. Sorry.

Tailwinds...

On the face of it yes. However there are other provisions to allow in fact more money to be made. Open time paid at 150% will be doubled to 10% of total lines available. The check points at 2.5 / 5 / and 7 years allow for 2% pay above the average pay for non-wholly oned regionals. Pay increases are 3% per year (1.5% at anniversary date and 1.5% longevity) so at least (for the time being) inflation is covered.

No one likes the length of this contract even if they agree with what it has to offer. However the long term future had to be taken in to consideration. What was made clear was that if this contract failed to pass there would be NO further negotiations by management, and if (without a bid showing stabilized costs) UAL may not give us future flying (this is still not a given). The owners stated that other airlines are interested in using us but not at current rates so there again we may still had to take cuts to survive. This being the case they (owners) had a plan B.

Plan B - As UAL flying is awarded to other carriers and AWAC had no other airlines to service then the time line for wind down and closure was 18 - 24 months.

 

[JAFO]

I'm curious?!

So, is Mesa still the s#ithole of the industry? Are they still to blame for "lowering the bar"? Or are people now realizing that business is business, and people who need their jobs will do what they have to do to keep them? I'm just curious. I guess in a perfect world, everyone gets what they want. The problem is, it is not a perfect world. Keep your speed up!

 

[cheezpilot]

Hey g159av8tor,
I dont want to get into a pissing match, but you sound like one of our pilots who did not read the contract and your math is "fuzzy" to say the least. You are off base because you are making comments on something you dont know about.. PM me for more details. Remember that ACA, Skywest and us are all within 2 percent of each other now so if you take that average in 2.5 years and add another 2percent to it then we are at the top of the industry again. The only problem is that the likes of Mesa will be averaged in. Lets face it, ACA will take concessions. It may be soon it may be later. It may be in the form of not having a job. The way I figure it is that a 7percent pay cut for two years will save me a lot more money than getting furloughed for one year and then going back to our old wages. Like that would be a likely senerio anyways. Do the math. Maybe I voted with some emotion involved but taking care of my family is my top priority. Taking a 250 dollar a month paycut is way better than I expected. The new contract has provisions to let us fly more and potentially make more money than before. We still retained our 12 days off minimum. Our previous work rules were too restrictive to allow us to fly over guarantee. I had one month over guarantee pay last year. If I can fly an average of 4 to 5 hours a month more each month then My W2 will stay the same as this past year.
We are not bidding agains UAL, we are bidding against the creditors and banks that are backing UAL. The creditors are looking at the bottom line and that is it. Reliablility and quality of product are out the window. We are taking a risk by not going to Mesa wages because if the creditors tell UAL how to get out of bk all the UAex flying will go to the cheapest bidder. We are NOT the cheapest bidder and still are not guaranteed to survive with our new rates. I would never stoop to Mesa wages and work rules but we were going to have to take a cut now or later. It is simple economics, comprende?

 

[RJPilott]

Wonder how JO is going to respond to the Mesa pilot group when we all take concessions and are able to gain UEX flying over Mesa. Think JO was counting on doing more flying for UAL? I can see it now, JO's first memo to the pilot group, "Sorry guys, but since all UEX carriers have taken concessions we are no longer competitive and will need to renegotiate our contract in order to gain UEX flying, or the furloughs will start next week." I feel for those guys.

 

[Nindiri]

I've got no problem with Air wisconsin, it was your company and you guys did what you thought was best. I'm afraid you're in for some harassment, though, after the way some of your people here took cheapshots at Mesa, especially the crap about the jumpseats. When you say you were taking care of your family, people are going to remind you that they were admonished for not "shutting Mesa down".

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

RJpilot, worry about your own house. We don’t need the UAX flying we already have plenty on our plate with AWA and US.

 

[RJPilott]

You really think that JO wont come to you for concessions cause he anticipated UEX flying? HA! No wonder you guys ratified that contract. Im not worried about Mesa. I just feel for you guys. I'll sit back and watch the entertaining JO work you guys over once again....

 

[WhiteCloud]

I've got no problem with Air wisconsin, it was your company and you guys did what you thought was best. I'm afraid you're in for some harassment, though, after the way some of your people here took cheapshots at Mesa, especially the crap about the jumpseats. When you say you were taking care of your family, people are going to remind you that they were admonished for not "shutting Mesa down".

I guess the not so subtle company threat that the aiplanes might be sold off (to MESA?) if the TA didn't pass prompted the positive vote.

 

[Menace]

We have so many FU@KING WH@RES in this business!!!

Yes, I am talkin to you AS$HOLE!!!!

BTW, where the fu(k is WD?

Wow, we have a mature bunch of "pilots" posting here. It's amazing that we call ourselves "professionals."

Does anyone REALLY think that any of us are happy with this situation that we are in?! Would anyone want a pay cut?! UAL told us where we had to cut if we even wanted a chance to get any express flying. Our company had about a week to put together a bid that had to include lower wages for pilots. I'm not happy at all with this new deal, but like cheezpilot said, it sure beats unemployment (I think).

I don't really know what happened over at Mesa, and I don't know the history of the obvious anger between a lot of you, but I do know that the Mesa contract has directly affected me. UAL has pitted us against each other in the bidding process and Air Wisconsin would not be competetive against a carrier with lower costs (pilot's wages).

Unfortunately, this is the reallity that we have to live with now. Like it or not.

-Menace

 

[CRJ Driver]

I dont know what your smoking cheezpilot, but do a little
more math ok. Next year I get a $8,000 pay cut, and the year after that its $12,000, thats 17% pay cut.
And thanks for voting yes, the MEC and NC sure did a great job of doom and gloom.

 

[jetdriven]

Whiskey Driver:
I thought you guys were "gonna shut the fu@ker down!" before taking concessions?


its called "economics"

 

[cornbread]

yes and yes

So, is Mesa still the s#ithole of the industry? Are they still to blame for "lowering the bar"?

yes and yes.

but don't forget ALPAs role in helping them.



It is a race to the bottom and someone's leading the way.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Whiskey Driver:
I thought you guys were "gonna shut the fu@ker down!" before taking concessions?


its called "economics"

Economics is truely not what's it's called... Here's the real deal, mesa pilots willing to work for minimum wages and fear. I told you long ago that what you did will hurt the entire industry and it has begun. It will only be a matter of time now before many others will fall victim to the "lowering of the standards" I don't expect you to really understand the impact of your signing that contract but you can watch as the chips continue to fall and when it all said and done 15 to 20 yrs from now things will begin to iron themselves out. It only takes one and mesa was that one.

Now as for AWAC, I can't clown mesa now because too many in my own house were afraid of losing the low paying job we now have, BTW I aint one of them. I voted no and proud of it alpa's snow job didn't work on me, but that powerful fear worked on enough of my brothers and sisters to get it passed. The really sad part to all of this is that NO MAJOR AIRLINE JOBS WILL BE OPEN FOR YRS AND YRS and why should they, majors have found the golden goose it's called the RJ and they will get bigger and the pay will get smaller as they farm out major airline flying to the regionals who are all too happy to do it at a 1/3 of the pay and wonder why no major jobs are around... Just sit back and watch the real fun is about to start.

WD.

 

[cheezpilot]

Hello CRJ driver,
You must be talking about the future raises from our current contract and not current pay rates. Let's talk what you are making now not in the future. Yeah, I was supposed to be making more in two years than I will make a few years after that but those raises were much more than 3% a year. Do the math that way then you are right. I dont know your situation. I only know mine so you might be in a different boat.
If you cant trust the MEC then who can you trust. I think you should run for a Union position if you know more and can do a better job. Then I will listen.

later, cheez

 

[avrodriver]

I posted this on another link that I thought no one would read so I put it here as well as a response to Mesa guys enjoying our new contract:

I'll be the first to admit that while you guys set the standard for sh.itty contracts, we set the standard for accepting concessions at the regional level (to clean up United's f.uckin mess of an airline). It's so funny to see all the Mesa guys smiling about how this whole fricken gig is falling apart for all of us at the regional level. Seriously, I guess misery loves company, huh? You guys are really sick. I love the "I guess you guys forgot to shut the company down" comments as well. Guess what.....when everyone was saying they would shut the f.ucker down they were talking about the fact that if they were faced with the crap that you signed....not what we signed. Your contract is shi.t, ours just got worse, but it's nothing like yours. The fact that you have the contract that you have now proves that you would have piss.ed your pants to have what you are making fun of us for signing. By the way the comments about how you will be working under your next contract by the time we ever see our next one is good becuase our pay depends on it. The pay protection part of the contract depends on taking averages of all regionals salaries and ensuring that we make at least 2% more, then 3% more, and finally 4% more of that average if it is more than the book rates. Thank god you didn't sign an 8 year deal because guess who's salary is keeping that average down?????? The sooner you sign a new contract the sooner we get a raise. Yes you were first in line....that's how you put it, but instead of standing in the line that every other reginal helped to create, you hijacked it and decided to get in the welfare line......guess what, we're all right behind you now. I understand why Mesa pilots were scared. You guys had to sign because of bulls.hit going on inside your own company, now it's spreading because it wasn't contained...............the guys that signed here did so because of outside influences.....United not knowing how to run a company and then taking advantage of it, the uncertainy of having any business at all because of low standard regionals, yada, yada....let them tell you why.......because I luckily didn't have to roll the dice with being on probation and all. Any way......have fun discussing who suc.ks more......it's getting old. It seems like the DCI guys all hate each other, the United family is falling apart, UsAir WO's, Mesaba/Big Sky.......all this bullsh.it and at bullsh.it wages on top of that. Life sure does seem pretty peacefull once you get out of this cess pool of the regionals.....that is while your not trying to duck being furloughed........ok that's enough for now. Good luck to all in negotiations & facing concessions. AD