Air Wisconsin TA Passes

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

RJpilot, worry about your own house. We don’t need the UAX flying we already have plenty on our plate with AWA and US.

 

[RJPilott]

You really think that JO wont come to you for concessions cause he anticipated UEX flying? HA! No wonder you guys ratified that contract. Im not worried about Mesa. I just feel for you guys. I'll sit back and watch the entertaining JO work you guys over once again....

 

[WhiteCloud]

I've got no problem with Air wisconsin, it was your company and you guys did what you thought was best. I'm afraid you're in for some harassment, though, after the way some of your people here took cheapshots at Mesa, especially the crap about the jumpseats. When you say you were taking care of your family, people are going to remind you that they were admonished for not "shutting Mesa down".

I guess the not so subtle company threat that the aiplanes might be sold off (to MESA?) if the TA didn't pass prompted the positive vote.

 

[Menace]

We have so many FU@KING WH@RES in this business!!!

Yes, I am talkin to you AS$HOLE!!!!

BTW, where the fu(k is WD?

Wow, we have a mature bunch of "pilots" posting here. It's amazing that we call ourselves "professionals."

Does anyone REALLY think that any of us are happy with this situation that we are in?! Would anyone want a pay cut?! UAL told us where we had to cut if we even wanted a chance to get any express flying. Our company had about a week to put together a bid that had to include lower wages for pilots. I'm not happy at all with this new deal, but like cheezpilot said, it sure beats unemployment (I think).

I don't really know what happened over at Mesa, and I don't know the history of the obvious anger between a lot of you, but I do know that the Mesa contract has directly affected me. UAL has pitted us against each other in the bidding process and Air Wisconsin would not be competetive against a carrier with lower costs (pilot's wages).

Unfortunately, this is the reallity that we have to live with now. Like it or not.

-Menace

 

[CRJ Driver]

I dont know what your smoking cheezpilot, but do a little
more math ok. Next year I get a $8,000 pay cut, and the year after that its $12,000, thats 17% pay cut.
And thanks for voting yes, the MEC and NC sure did a great job of doom and gloom.

 

[jetdriven]

Whiskey Driver:
I thought you guys were "gonna shut the fu@ker down!" before taking concessions?


its called "economics"

 

[cornbread]

yes and yes

So, is Mesa still the s#ithole of the industry? Are they still to blame for "lowering the bar"?

yes and yes.

but don't forget ALPAs role in helping them.



It is a race to the bottom and someone's leading the way.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Whiskey Driver:
I thought you guys were "gonna shut the fu@ker down!" before taking concessions?


its called "economics"

Economics is truely not what's it's called... Here's the real deal, mesa pilots willing to work for minimum wages and fear. I told you long ago that what you did will hurt the entire industry and it has begun. It will only be a matter of time now before many others will fall victim to the "lowering of the standards" I don't expect you to really understand the impact of your signing that contract but you can watch as the chips continue to fall and when it all said and done 15 to 20 yrs from now things will begin to iron themselves out. It only takes one and mesa was that one.

Now as for AWAC, I can't clown mesa now because too many in my own house were afraid of losing the low paying job we now have, BTW I aint one of them. I voted no and proud of it alpa's snow job didn't work on me, but that powerful fear worked on enough of my brothers and sisters to get it passed. The really sad part to all of this is that NO MAJOR AIRLINE JOBS WILL BE OPEN FOR YRS AND YRS and why should they, majors have found the golden goose it's called the RJ and they will get bigger and the pay will get smaller as they farm out major airline flying to the regionals who are all too happy to do it at a 1/3 of the pay and wonder why no major jobs are around... Just sit back and watch the real fun is about to start.

WD.

 

[cheezpilot]

Hello CRJ driver,
You must be talking about the future raises from our current contract and not current pay rates. Let's talk what you are making now not in the future. Yeah, I was supposed to be making more in two years than I will make a few years after that but those raises were much more than 3% a year. Do the math that way then you are right. I dont know your situation. I only know mine so you might be in a different boat.
If you cant trust the MEC then who can you trust. I think you should run for a Union position if you know more and can do a better job. Then I will listen.

later, cheez

 

[avrodriver]

I posted this on another link that I thought no one would read so I put it here as well as a response to Mesa guys enjoying our new contract:

I'll be the first to admit that while you guys set the standard for sh.itty contracts, we set the standard for accepting concessions at the regional level (to clean up United's f.uckin mess of an airline). It's so funny to see all the Mesa guys smiling about how this whole fricken gig is falling apart for all of us at the regional level. Seriously, I guess misery loves company, huh? You guys are really sick. I love the "I guess you guys forgot to shut the company down" comments as well. Guess what.....when everyone was saying they would shut the f.ucker down they were talking about the fact that if they were faced with the crap that you signed....not what we signed. Your contract is shi.t, ours just got worse, but it's nothing like yours. The fact that you have the contract that you have now proves that you would have piss.ed your pants to have what you are making fun of us for signing. By the way the comments about how you will be working under your next contract by the time we ever see our next one is good becuase our pay depends on it. The pay protection part of the contract depends on taking averages of all regionals salaries and ensuring that we make at least 2% more, then 3% more, and finally 4% more of that average if it is more than the book rates. Thank god you didn't sign an 8 year deal because guess who's salary is keeping that average down?????? The sooner you sign a new contract the sooner we get a raise. Yes you were first in line....that's how you put it, but instead of standing in the line that every other reginal helped to create, you hijacked it and decided to get in the welfare line......guess what, we're all right behind you now. I understand why Mesa pilots were scared. You guys had to sign because of bulls.hit going on inside your own company, now it's spreading because it wasn't contained...............the guys that signed here did so because of outside influences.....United not knowing how to run a company and then taking advantage of it, the uncertainy of having any business at all because of low standard regionals, yada, yada....let them tell you why.......because I luckily didn't have to roll the dice with being on probation and all. Any way......have fun discussing who suc.ks more......it's getting old. It seems like the DCI guys all hate each other, the United family is falling apart, UsAir WO's, Mesaba/Big Sky.......all this bullsh.it and at bullsh.it wages on top of that. Life sure does seem pretty peacefull once you get out of this cess pool of the regionals.....that is while your not trying to duck being furloughed........ok that's enough for now. Good luck to all in negotiations & facing concessions. AD

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Not to worry guys. XJT will come thru. You should see the unity at our company and we are way more than willing to shut down the mofo company if that what it takes to make a livable wage. I get chills when I think about how many pilots are on the same sheet of music when it comes to our contract.

 

[citdrver]

Other Work Groups

Just a quick question in this thread. Are the other work groups such as mechanics, rampers, dispatchers, etc. have to undergo any give backs, such as the pilots are going to do?? If so, are they undergoing the same degree of concessions or are the pilots giving more??

 

[maddog805]

haha

Mesa will be three years into their next contract when yours become ammendable...maybe they can raise the bar for you?

Yeah right. HA!!

 

[Beechnut]

Just a quick question in this thread. Are the other work groups such as mechanics, rampers, dispatchers, etc. have to undergo any give backs, such as the pilots are going to do?? If so, are they undergoing the same degree of concessions or are the pilots giving more??

Everyone, from the top down is taking pay cuts and changes to work rules.. Mechanics, Rampers, FA's, Pilots, and Management are cutting costs where we can.

S.

 

[cornbread]

except

Except for CEOs and upper-mgt. at some companies.


Can you believe what they did at AMR?

 

[jetdriven]

how many contracts has airwis had??

we are on our SECOND.

remember our contract was an improvement in almost every section. You guys are taking concessions. WE didnt.

The fact that you blame MESA for your travesty is truly evidence of your ignorance.

 

[Menace]

If everything is such an improvement, then why the ky jelly?

 

[RJPilott]

we are on our SECOND.

ACA is on their 3rd. Take a look at our second and compare it to your second. Who is ignorant?

 

[Wiskey Driver]

how many contracts has airwis had??

we are on our SECOND.

remember our contract was an improvement in almost every section. You guys are taking concessions. WE didnt.

The fact that you blame MESA for your travesty is truly evidence of your ignorance.

Jetdriven,

You know, I had hoped to avoid getting into this with you or any other mesa person for that matter but your comments assure everyone that you are really ignorant. You just don't seem to get it do ya? That contract of yours drove the wages in the ground and it is and will continue to hurt EVERY REGIONAL PILOT FOR YEARS TO COME!!!! Yeah it's no secret that in order for this airline to compete with mesa welfare proposal we had to take concessions but guess what, I still make more than you and will continue to do so. I didn't vote for this TA because I felt that every pilot didn't have to sink the the depths of mesa. I am glad that you like mesa cause your gonna be there for a long long time!!

WD.

 

[Nindiri]

Wiskey Driver

Yeah, I bet you hoped to avoid getting into it with the Mesa guys now, since you ran your mouth so much earlier. You can spin it anyway you like, but the fact remains that after insulting them because they didn't shut the place down, you folded when it came time to put your money where your mouth was.

 

[mckpickle]

Ok whats the deal with the MODS deleting my post?

So I'll say it again. Mesa guys are are the ones who have screwed this industry up. You guys undercut everyone else so bad so OF COURSE whisky has to take pay cuts. How the he11 can they compete with morrons willing to work for nothing?

Thats why mesa guys suck!

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Ahhh you did miss the part where I voted NO right?? Ok that's what I thought your bad then...

No two ways about it that contract was poison to the industry and it is now starting to make everyone ill. No mater how you slice it you and your comrads WILL NEVER EVER IN THIS CONTRACT OR THE NEXT EVER MAKE WHAT AWAC DOES PERIOD!!!! Yeah we will take a pay cut but protections in the contract will ensure that you will always be below, behind or what ever you wish to call it AWAC. Like I told your buddy, settle in your gonna be there for a very long time.

WD.

 

[Nindiri]

Nope, I don't work for Mesa, nor do I want to work for them. However, I also do not presume to tell them to sacrifice their jobs for the good of my next contract. I'm simply amazed that you have the audacity to criticize them after the way you folded and took concessions despite your earlier boast that you would shut the place down.

 

[Speedtree]

A few thoughts.


Going through the process at Air Wisconsin has helped me see with better perspective what the pilots of Mesa were faced with. I would probably take back some of my previous posts if I were to do it all over again. I can sympathize with them and their difficult decisions.

Air Wisconsin is taking Concessions because we believe it is the best way to remain a viable option for United Airlines (For better or worse they are our bread and butter). Therefore we are working with our management to further our company's position. I would say similar to UAL, AMR and any other company in a similar situation.


It kind of hurts having to compete with the labor costs of Mesa and others. Mesa entered into their negotiations to create a new contract because their old one expired (correct me if I am wrong).
They were working with a management who they know is out to get them. (Some at AWAC only assume ours is. I believe they are better than most). No one can presume to know how the situation would have played out had Mesa rejected a proposal or two, but I think they should have at least held out a little longer. When our next contract comes up and the company is doing well I would hope we would work for our well deserved cut.


The part that bothers me is the Freedom outfit. Why were the nonunion workers who were supporting an end-run by management allowed to join in with the rest when the party was over? In my mind this is a much clearer issue than whether we as pilots believe management is telling us the truth and we should stick up for better wages in the regional industry. Where was ALPA? You should have at least made sure those bstards were out on the street and not added to your seniority list.

The one thing I said before that I stand by is that I can't understand why anyone would go to work for Mesa in the first place.

Too many people look at what we gave up. And, rightly or wrongly maybe we should have held our ground. I look at what we still have. One of the best contracts in the regional industry. I am not money hungry. I can live on what I will make at AWAC.
(Let's face the facts and realize that regional airlines will never be compensated richly as long as we are under the thumb of the major airlines and ALPA. The current system won't allow it). I would still apply and want to work at AWAC if the TA was the current contract.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Man you just can't seem to keep you own foot out of your mouth can you? I said that if faced with what they face we would opt to shut the palce down, now as for folding, maybe you need to show me where we did that. Maybe it's me or is it that you just can't see what effect that contract has had as a whole. Now I will say it again since you missed it twice before, all this company lost was 7&9% pay THAT'S IT!!! I realize you want it to be more so that you can justify your comments but sorry that's it. IF you don't work for mesa and are not effected by their contract signing then what the hell is your point? If you don't have one then please S.T.F.U!!!!!!

WD.

 

[Nindiri]

My, aren't we cranky. My point is that you are a hypocrite who only talks big when it's somebody else's job on the line. You want others to risk their job, but when it came your turn, you forgot to shut the place down. What happened? Is your job more important than theirs?

Regardless of how poor Mesa's contract is, the fact remains that you didn't make good on your boasts, so you owe the Mesa guys an apology. Not that I expect you to make one; you're too busy blaming others for your failures. Sadly, there's always a few like you at every airline.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

You are a complete waste of time. I VOTED NO ON THE TA so your claim the I FOLDED is totally unfounded. Ask anyone at my comapny that reads this form and they will tell you that I was among the loudest voices to vote down the ta. Now as for your comment of my being a failure, last time I checked I was an airline pilot hummmm doesn't sound like I failed to me. Continue in the flight instruction world son call us when you arrive at the 121 level.

WD.

BTW I am done wasting time on you so say what you will just don't be offended when I don't respond...

 

[CRJ Driver]

A few thoughts.

The one thing I said before that I stand by is that I can't understand why anyone would go to work for Mesa in the first place.

Too many people look at what we gave up. And, rightly or wrongly maybe we should have held our ground. I look at what we still have. One of the best contracts in the regional industry. I am not money hungry. I can live on what I will make at AWAC.
(Let's face the facts and realize that regional airlines will never be compensated richly as long as we are under the thumb of the major airlines and ALPA. The current system won't allow it). I would still apply and want to work at AWAC if the TA was the current contract.

Thanks for voting YES speedtree, I guess the NC and MEC brain washed you too. Just remember in 8 years dont complain you cant get a contract, it will be 10 YEARS.

 

[Jeepman]

Can anyone at AWAC comment on the rumor that your MEC or management told you guys that we (SkyWest) had already taken a paycut so you had better sign the TA? If so they are wrong and were lying to you!!! We have not taken a paycut yet. Our contract is up this summer. SAPA (Skywest Airlines Pilot Association) is currently in negotionations with management and it sounds like the next contract is gonna be the same pay for bigger RJ's.



This whole situation sucks guys (and gals), and if our managment shoves some huge concession down our throat I can gaurantee we will not be making the front cover of the USA Today for on time arivals. I hope it doesn't come down to that.

 

[Beechnut]

No one told us that SkyWest had already taken pay cuts. We were told you hadn't taken yours yet. Our unsubstantiated understanding is that SkyWest submitted their bid, and will tell you what your new pay rates are.

S.