Air Wisconsin TA Passes

[Cardinal]

Madame Boeing...

I have never understood why people take such glee in making a mockery of labor actions, suggesting that picket lines will be crossed and always being the advocate of the schmuck that will do it for less. What is the point? What pleasure do you take in it? Without such landmark events as UA in 85 or Comair you simply would not see the wage levels like you do now, concessions or not. What is your gripe with ALPA? Perhaps dentistry better suits you if the "playground politics" of aviation are so far beneath you. At least that will start chipping away at the oversupply problem we have in the labor market. "Slobbing the coportate knob" - such a lady.

 

[FatesPawn]

Re: Madame Boeing...

"Slobbing the coportate knob" - such a lady.

She may not meet your eloquence standards, but she's right (though I'd disagree with the picket line comment.) Every place I've worked thought "we're better than the next guy." Regional, Major, and now... Fractional. Fact is (and was) that the bigger the industry gets, the more whores it produces.

There are hundreds of airlines out there. One or two can not raise the bar for anyone. One or two CAN lower the bar for everyone. That's the name of the game, and she hit the nail on the slobbering head.

 

[maddog805]

No one told us that SkyWest had already taken pay cuts. We were told you hadn't taken yours yet. Our unsubstantiated understanding is that SkyWest submitted their bid, and will tell you what your new pay rates are.

S.

That's BS, No cuts yet.....

 

[cheezpilot]

Hey WD,
Our last contract took forever because it was an almost total re-write. The next contract will be much faster, with mainly the wages to negotiate and some work rules. The work rules are the hardest to get back and they did not change a lot with the new UAL caused TA. The MEC WILL start to negotiate the next contract before the contract is up so we will have a new one when this one ends. The pilot group will not stand for waiting on the next one, especially when we will have waited eight years. The company and MEC acknowledged this during the negotiations for our concessionary TA. We WILL get every bit of back pay if it takes longer. This is why I think the ten year argument does not hold water.
later cheez

 

[Wiskey Driver]

WD stop blaming everyone else for your short coming. Why didn’t the Mesa contract before effect you, why is this contract now poison? UAL was going to get concession no matter what happen with Mesa. At least Mesa offered breaks when their code share partners needed it most. You guys didn’t offer **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** up, you just kept sucking UAL dry. I’m sick you talking **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**, when you don’t have a FK clue what you’re talking about.

And yet another mesa welfare recipient speaks. I am not blaming, let's see how did you put it? "everyone else" I am blaming you and your mesa buddies. I have a little lesson for you, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, mesa's piss poor contract has INFECTED!! every regional carrier. I just can't believe you don't understand that. Just so that you know and are not misled, I have no short comings this is still one of the best regionals Inspite of mesa and dispite the fact that the company had to compete with the likes of you and yours. B1900 huh?? Hope you lovin the sound of the turbo prop son cause you be in it for several yrs ...

NEXT!!

WD

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Re: choices have consequences

Primarily for WD......I think it is funny how AW is blaming Mesa. Mesa has to deal with what the moajority voted. What does that have to do with Wisconsin? You guys crapping on Mesa pilots... why? They did what they had to do it sounds like, you guys are not happy with what you did so point to MESA as your scapegoat? Let's be responsible here. What did they do to you guys? They work for a different regional. You blame Mesa. They did not set the standard COMAIR set the standard for how to do it right, maybe MESA went the other way but they still have there jobs. You guys followed MESA's path like trail horses. Don't blame anyone but yourselves. You guys should apologize for crapping on the forefathers _COMAIR trying to make things better for all but instead you guys decided to take the other route. Don't blame just reap the benefits that you AW pilots voted for and no one else. Did you guys have the backbone that comair had? I don't think so but sure is wishful thinking now huh?!

Hyperboy, you missed the big picture here. No worriers though I will explain.

UAL in serious trouble no doubt about it, SKYWEST, ACA and us here at AWAC all UEX and are paid on a fee for departure. lets just say that the cost per departure is $3000 and in that all labor costs are accounted for. Now enter mesa with their industry trailing contract who bids to do the same job for $1800. The bean counters that ual hired need only look at this and simply start a race to the bottom contest by threatning to give all of the express flying to mesa. If they had just simply returned the first offer they would have recieved another more favorable contract, instead they lowered the standard making it extremely difficult to justify the current levels. I myself voted no because I did not believe the tactic. I won't apologize to mesa for bringing the bar below where it was before. We all (EVERY REGIONAL PILOT) suffer as a result of that contract and the other foot still has yet to drop...

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Hey WD,
Our last contract took forever because it was an almost total re-write. The next contract will be much faster, with mainly the wages to negotiate and some work rules. The work rules are the hardest to get back and they did not change a lot with the new UAL caused TA. The MEC WILL start to negotiate the next contract before the contract is up so we will have a new one when this one ends. The pilot group will not stand for waiting on the next one, especially when we will have waited eight years. The company and MEC acknowledged this during the negotiations for our concessionary TA. We WILL get every bit of back pay if it takes longer. This is why I think the ten year argument does not hold water.
later cheez

I do hope you are right cheez, I sure hope you are right.

WD.

 

[DBacks]

Ok dude, I think we all understand now after the umpteenth time... you voted NO, right?

I myself voted no because I did not believe the tactic

 

[WileE]

WD is mad.

He has every right to be if he voted no. I tend to think he is a little off in blaming everything on the contract Mesa signed. AW would be in even worse footing if Mesa hadn't signed the contract. At least he didn't have a non-union Freedom putting in a bid for all AW's flying. Since the prior Mesa contract was worse and it would be at least a year before a new one could have been signed, it's obvious that management at AW could have played the same card regardless, it just would have been a king instead of a jack.

Anyway, you throw some numbers around there about AW bidding $3000 per departure and Mesa bidding $1800. I'm unaware of the bid so those may or may not be the numbers. But honestly, how much of that $1200 difference can be blamed on pilot salaries? For an average flight how much less is a Mesa flight crew of the same seniority level paid than an AW flight crew for the same flight? $15? $20? That hardly adds up to the entire difference. The fact that Mesa pilots are paid a little lower than yours doesn't really make a huge difference in the long run. (And how much lower is that hourly now BTW?)

Mesa has always been a lower bidder mostly because it is willing to accept less profit than the other airlines. While other regionals are bidding 5 percent above cost, JO is willing to run with a margin of something like 2 percent above cost.

I am not gloating over AW's failure to fight for a non-concessionary contract. It's especially sad that they accepted this for eight years. They had the anchor of UAL's situation weighing them down just like Mesa had USAir's and AMW's financial situation as well as the Freedom situation weighing us down. It's just the nature of things that when it comes down to it, the majority of people will vote selfishly so that bills get paid.

 

[Beechnut]

That's BS, No cuts yet.....

You know for certain that there won't be any?

I'd like a gander at your crystal ball some time.

S.