Air Wisconsin minimums lowered?

[mooser]

Before we get on a posting spree let me just add the following.


I didn't call anyone an a hole. I had a long day as a flight instructor after years of doing the same construction jobs you still cherish. I saw the post of someone buying a type rating and effectively cutting in line for a job I want. I'm relatively certain that I too could earn that rating too if I ponied up enough cash. The issue isn't the earning, but moreso the buying.

Dude I totally understand where you are coming from!!! I have spent the last three years living at home and CFI'ing it up!!!! I finally got a job but, the other kids can just buy some CRJ or 737 Type that have ritch daddy's with large credit limits to get these jobs...It fire's me up!!!! I guess the hard workers like us just have to put it in the back of our minds that we earned our positions and when we are hiring captains I will be right behind you when I tear some rich kid a new a*hole for trying to buy his way in to this industry. Those are the same ones that go to MESA.

Anyhoo

Mooser

 

[pipejockey]

Before we get on a posting spree let me just add the following.


I didn't call anyone an a hole. I had a long day as a flight instructor after years of doing the same construction jobs you still cherish. I saw the post of someone buying a type rating and effectively cutting in line for a job I want. I'm relatively certain that I too could earn that rating too if I ponied up enough cash. The issue isn't the earning, but moreso the buying.

Thank you for the explanation, and I know you were not the one calling people aholes but you seemed to agree with that poster. I wouldn't say I cherish the construction jobs but what they have done is allow me to appreciate the oppurtunity I now have at a regional airline. Im sorry to hear you think I've "cut" in line but I just want to better my resume and do something that would perhaps make me stand out in the crowd. Competition for airline jobs is fierce. Its all about getting noticed, and a type rating gets you noticed. And I'd be curious to know how the "line" that I cut is defined. I met the minimums of the Company that hired me. And far surpassed the ME mins plus I have turbine time.. I know many have much more but I'd hardly say I cut.

Goodluck in your job search. 2004 is looking to be a pretty good year with probably more newhires this year than in the last 2 years combined.

 

[pipejockey]

And Mooser,

The rich kids who have their way paid for them by mommy and daddy frustrate me as well. But I think you'd be surprised at how many of these people don't come from wealthy families. I did it all on my own and am very proud of the hard work I endured to get here. You seem to think that just hard working CFI's should have the oppurtunity and not others like me. You know we are not all in our 20's. I don't have the time to spend 4 years flight instructing. Nor can I afford to relocate and get paid 12 bucks an hour for Instructing about 500 hours a year which is what I'd have to do. I found another way. I simply tried to improve my resume. Plus a lot of the Type Rating guys actually meet the mins!

 

[SpocksBeard]

I stand by my "aholes" comment. I think what they did is a despicable thing to do. Like someone said before, anybody can sit in a simulator and push buttons. I'm thankful for the 2.5 years I put in instructing and no it isn't the only way to get there. I don't look down on somebody who doesn't flight instruct but I don't see how anybody can justify what these people paid to get a job here at AWAC. This situation isn't nearly as bad as the whole Gulfstream debacle but I still don't think it is right. I earned my job. They didn't. Simple as that. I would not give them a hard time if I ever end up as captain here, but I would not hire them if I was on a hiring board in the future. I also understand it is not just the "rich kids" who do this and many people want to "build their resumes" with this type of experience. I knew a guy at my old cargo job who did the Gulfstream thing because he had a violation on his record and he felt that it was the only way he was ever going to get hired by an airline. I can understand this view point but I still don't think that makes it right. This whole mentality erodes the pay and benefits for everybody. AWAC may realize that there are enough guys out there that will pay ridiculous amounts of money to fly their airplanes, and they will decide to only hire through this academy deal because these people are picking up part of the training cost. Then AWAC will realize that these guys will still take the job if they don't get paid in training. They are so desperate to be an airline pilot that they will pay for their own hotel in training too, so I guess we can save more money that way. Its a downward spiral and that is why alot of people at this company are somewhat disgruntled about our new hiring practices. I don't think that Southwest is a fair comparison either. You can get a 737 type for fairly cheap and it is or was a hard and fast requirement set by the company. I think these guys hired at AWAC paid considerably more. Plus, at SWA you actually start at a decent wage.

 

[EngineOut]

 

[J32driver]

I think these guys hired at AWAC paid considerably more.

Take it for what its worth, but the number thrown out at my last recurrent ground school was $108,000 from "zero time" to RJ type rating. The type is $20K (i think) and thats after $88K for the basic and advanced flight training they already shelled out.

If that number is indeed correct, its REAL hard to not think they bought their job. That doesn't pass any judgement on their individual skills as a pilot. Each one will surely get a "fair shake" with this pilot group.

 

[lionflyer]

Take it for what its worth, but the number thrown out at my last recurrent ground school was $108,000 from "zero time" to RJ type rating. The type is $20K (i think) and thats after $88K for the basic and advanced flight training they already shelled out.

If that number is indeed correct, its REAL hard to not think they bought their job. That doesn't pass any judgement on their individual skills as a pilot. Each one will surely get a "fair shake" with this pilot group.

Why the He11 would anybody pay that kind of money to fly an RJ? They'll be lucky to have that paid off by the time they retire. What's this industry comming to?

 

[SpocksBeard]

That's the number I heard too but I didn't want to throw it out there without hearing it from somebody more official. Isn't a 737 type like 7000 or something??? Sounds like somebody got screwed...

 

[pipejockey]

That astronomical monetary figure someone threw out is probably if you go through their entire program. You can do just the type rating which is a fraction of the cost.

Thanks for your input SpocksBeard. I am glad that you feel these people will get a fair shake from the other pilots at AWAC. Its frustrating for me because I passed on a few programs I felt were objectionable such as, Gulfstream and Colgan. I actually stayed in the trenches longer than I needed to in order to do something I felt was reasonable. I didnt think there would be so much negativity about the Type program. I even passed on a potential oppurtunity at Mesa because of the things Ive heard about them and their pilot group. I guess you will always have people that have a problem with the way you do things regardless of what you do. I just hope I am judged on my ability, competence and enthusiasm for the job from the pilot group.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

In the latest new hire class at AWAC the low time dude had an amazing 335 hrs. Good luck to the captains who will be babysitting/flight instructing for four days.