Air Wisconsin minimums lowered?

[pipejockey]

They aren't hiring from a "bridge program." They have a deal with some stupid academy and are hiring an occasional ahole who bought a CRJ type through this academy and the facility that hosts our CRJ training. Not sure how many might have come from this sham or how many might but that is the situation.

Just curious why you'd call these people aholes because they decided to better their resumes and make themselves more attractive to a prospective employer in a tight hiring market by earning a type rating. The last I knew you still had to EARN a type rating, you can't just go out and buy one. Would you call someone who went out and earned (or as you put it BUY) a master's degree to better their resume an ahole as well?

Oh I think I understand where you're coming from. You must be one of those people that thinks the only way to an airline job is through flight instructing. Get over it!! You chose to be a flight instructor and thats fine. But why criticize people who have decided not to go that route? You don't know their background. They may have worked their a s ses off to earn the money for this type rating!

And labbats,
You chose to be a flight instructor. Quite whining about those who chose another way to build the experience and qualifications for a regional airline job.
Oh, and I guess all those SWA pilots are aholes as well. I mean come on, a major airline and they REQUIRE everyone to have a type before getting hired! Last I knew AWAC does not require the type, nor will it ever require it.

This is the only profession I know of where so many people concern themselves about how someone gets the required experience necessary for a job. Some of you need to get over yourselves.

 

[labbats]

Yes, some of us do. You first.

Seems we struck a nerve.

 

[pipejockey]

Yes, some of us do. You first.

Seems we struck a nerve.

Yes you have, I won't deny it. Is it the intention of people like you to, as you say, strike a nerve? And I'm not the one calling others aholes because they may have chosen to better their resume by doing something you may not be able to afford to do!

I worked a blue collar job for years. Ive worked out in the rain and mud with a rake and shovel in my hand to get to where I'm at now, and I take offense when people call me a "yahoo" or an "a s shole" because I may not have done things their way!

Just like Sinatra, I did it MY way!!!

And btw, it seems people like me are the ones that strike the nerves of people like you.

 

[labbats]

Before we get on a posting spree let me just add the following.


I didn't call anyone an a hole. I had a long day as a flight instructor after years of doing the same construction jobs you still cherish. I saw the post of someone buying a type rating and effectively cutting in line for a job I want. I'm relatively certain that I too could earn that rating too if I ponied up enough cash. The issue isn't the earning, but moreso the buying.

 

[Mayday911]

Anyone can learn to fly a simulator, just like you can learn to fly a computer game...because that is all that it is, a big procedures game. You get to 600 turn on the A/P and work the FCP. Descend to 200 and turn the A/P off and smash the airplane into the TZ.

I fly with Captains on the line that have had to take the airplane from some of these people, close to the ground. Others say its like flying with another, unqualified, Captain.

I was sitting in our (AWAC) training hotel in DEN, enjoying some complimentary adult beverages from the hotels management. There was about 15 or so of us sitting around the lobby. I would say that it was an even mix of new hires, recurrents, and instructors. 2 new hires walk in to the lobby...walked right to the elevator and went upstairs. You guessed it, they were the only new hires that had their type ratings, both with low time. One of their classmates even asked them to join us. They declined. My rambling point is that it seemed that they even understood that there was a stigma associated with them because of what they had done. My question....why in the he!! would you subject yourself to that for a job that is probably going to pay you less than you payed for your type in the first year. Especially the guys who are going through the CAE program right now...they will probably be on reserve, as an F/O in IAD, for a long long time.

There is more to life than flying airplanes and most of us just don't get that.

Mayday.

 

[mooser]

Before we get on a posting spree let me just add the following.


I didn't call anyone an a hole. I had a long day as a flight instructor after years of doing the same construction jobs you still cherish. I saw the post of someone buying a type rating and effectively cutting in line for a job I want. I'm relatively certain that I too could earn that rating too if I ponied up enough cash. The issue isn't the earning, but moreso the buying.

Dude I totally understand where you are coming from!!! I have spent the last three years living at home and CFI'ing it up!!!! I finally got a job but, the other kids can just buy some CRJ or 737 Type that have ritch daddy's with large credit limits to get these jobs...It fire's me up!!!! I guess the hard workers like us just have to put it in the back of our minds that we earned our positions and when we are hiring captains I will be right behind you when I tear some rich kid a new a*hole for trying to buy his way in to this industry. Those are the same ones that go to MESA.

Anyhoo

Mooser

 

[pipejockey]

Before we get on a posting spree let me just add the following.


I didn't call anyone an a hole. I had a long day as a flight instructor after years of doing the same construction jobs you still cherish. I saw the post of someone buying a type rating and effectively cutting in line for a job I want. I'm relatively certain that I too could earn that rating too if I ponied up enough cash. The issue isn't the earning, but moreso the buying.

Thank you for the explanation, and I know you were not the one calling people aholes but you seemed to agree with that poster. I wouldn't say I cherish the construction jobs but what they have done is allow me to appreciate the oppurtunity I now have at a regional airline. Im sorry to hear you think I've "cut" in line but I just want to better my resume and do something that would perhaps make me stand out in the crowd. Competition for airline jobs is fierce. Its all about getting noticed, and a type rating gets you noticed. And I'd be curious to know how the "line" that I cut is defined. I met the minimums of the Company that hired me. And far surpassed the ME mins plus I have turbine time.. I know many have much more but I'd hardly say I cut.

Goodluck in your job search. 2004 is looking to be a pretty good year with probably more newhires this year than in the last 2 years combined.

 

[pipejockey]

And Mooser,

The rich kids who have their way paid for them by mommy and daddy frustrate me as well. But I think you'd be surprised at how many of these people don't come from wealthy families. I did it all on my own and am very proud of the hard work I endured to get here. You seem to think that just hard working CFI's should have the oppurtunity and not others like me. You know we are not all in our 20's. I don't have the time to spend 4 years flight instructing. Nor can I afford to relocate and get paid 12 bucks an hour for Instructing about 500 hours a year which is what I'd have to do. I found another way. I simply tried to improve my resume. Plus a lot of the Type Rating guys actually meet the mins!

 

[SpocksBeard]

I stand by my "aholes" comment. I think what they did is a despicable thing to do. Like someone said before, anybody can sit in a simulator and push buttons. I'm thankful for the 2.5 years I put in instructing and no it isn't the only way to get there. I don't look down on somebody who doesn't flight instruct but I don't see how anybody can justify what these people paid to get a job here at AWAC. This situation isn't nearly as bad as the whole Gulfstream debacle but I still don't think it is right. I earned my job. They didn't. Simple as that. I would not give them a hard time if I ever end up as captain here, but I would not hire them if I was on a hiring board in the future. I also understand it is not just the "rich kids" who do this and many people want to "build their resumes" with this type of experience. I knew a guy at my old cargo job who did the Gulfstream thing because he had a violation on his record and he felt that it was the only way he was ever going to get hired by an airline. I can understand this view point but I still don't think that makes it right. This whole mentality erodes the pay and benefits for everybody. AWAC may realize that there are enough guys out there that will pay ridiculous amounts of money to fly their airplanes, and they will decide to only hire through this academy deal because these people are picking up part of the training cost. Then AWAC will realize that these guys will still take the job if they don't get paid in training. They are so desperate to be an airline pilot that they will pay for their own hotel in training too, so I guess we can save more money that way. Its a downward spiral and that is why alot of people at this company are somewhat disgruntled about our new hiring practices. I don't think that Southwest is a fair comparison either. You can get a 737 type for fairly cheap and it is or was a hard and fast requirement set by the company. I think these guys hired at AWAC paid considerably more. Plus, at SWA you actually start at a decent wage.

 

[EngineOut]

 

[J32driver]

I think these guys hired at AWAC paid considerably more.

Take it for what its worth, but the number thrown out at my last recurrent ground school was $108,000 from "zero time" to RJ type rating. The type is $20K (i think) and thats after $88K for the basic and advanced flight training they already shelled out.

If that number is indeed correct, its REAL hard to not think they bought their job. That doesn't pass any judgement on their individual skills as a pilot. Each one will surely get a "fair shake" with this pilot group.

 

[lionflyer]

Take it for what its worth, but the number thrown out at my last recurrent ground school was $108,000 from "zero time" to RJ type rating. The type is $20K (i think) and thats after $88K for the basic and advanced flight training they already shelled out.

If that number is indeed correct, its REAL hard to not think they bought their job. That doesn't pass any judgement on their individual skills as a pilot. Each one will surely get a "fair shake" with this pilot group.

Why the He11 would anybody pay that kind of money to fly an RJ? They'll be lucky to have that paid off by the time they retire. What's this industry comming to?

 

[SpocksBeard]

That's the number I heard too but I didn't want to throw it out there without hearing it from somebody more official. Isn't a 737 type like 7000 or something??? Sounds like somebody got screwed...

 

[pipejockey]

That astronomical monetary figure someone threw out is probably if you go through their entire program. You can do just the type rating which is a fraction of the cost.

Thanks for your input SpocksBeard. I am glad that you feel these people will get a fair shake from the other pilots at AWAC. Its frustrating for me because I passed on a few programs I felt were objectionable such as, Gulfstream and Colgan. I actually stayed in the trenches longer than I needed to in order to do something I felt was reasonable. I didnt think there would be so much negativity about the Type program. I even passed on a potential oppurtunity at Mesa because of the things Ive heard about them and their pilot group. I guess you will always have people that have a problem with the way you do things regardless of what you do. I just hope I am judged on my ability, competence and enthusiasm for the job from the pilot group.

 

[Dr.Hwang]

In the latest new hire class at AWAC the low time dude had an amazing 335 hrs. Good luck to the captains who will be babysitting/flight instructing for four days.