air wisconsin flying NW rj's???

[dondk]

jets for XJ

I may get taken out back for my next comment, but what the heck....

I hope so... 75 jets, who really cares if we both get jets, heck split it down the middle. I would just like management to stop playing with XJ and EXA and trying to pit us against one another

 

[flyingpimp]

If Express Airlines negotiates a 44 seat pay scale it will set this industry back a few years. Comair set a precedent and then Air Wisconsin got 1 to 2 percent above comair for the CL 65. Anything less would be a certain failure. We at Air Wisconsin have only pay scales for 50 seat aircraft whether or not the plane has 44 seats or not. This is mang. decision's to use 44 seat aircraft to cercumnavigate scope clauses. In these times all regional pilots better negotiate contract's with the plan on being at that airline for 5 more years. Once airline hiring cont. (at least 2-3 years, because of all the furlogh pilots) we will once again be competing with military pilots for the higher paying jobs, therfore you can expect to be at Express for a few years. I have many friends at Mesaba and I agree with there philaosphy. There contract is coming due and they are not gone to sell out other industry pilots to fly a RJ. Explane to me you union stance on extending your contract by two years or negotating a 44 seat pay rate. By my calculations If you guys take 44 seat pay scale and say that is maybe 3 to 4 dollars per hour less than the 50 seat scale, Mesabe Capt's would be making approx. the same amount flying around a 34 seat turboprop. If this happens it will set this industry back and we will never get any respect in contract negations, because there will always be a airline like Express and Mesa there willing to do it for food stamps. Sorry, I just needed to vent because this industry has become very important and we as pilots need to tell mang. that it's time to drop the regional airline excuse of pay.

 

[Jiminmem]

Our contract only has pay rates for 20-35 seaters and 50-59 seaters. With any new aircraft our union and management must meet 90 days before planned delivery and negotiate a new rate. That has been going on rigth now. The company has given us 2 proposals:

1. Accept the same rate as the 50 seaters, keep the current pay scale. The price for this is a 2 year extension to our current contract. Since we have one of the worst contracts in the industry, no one will go along with that.

2. A new pay scale at a slightly reduced rate for the 44 seater. Again no one is willing to accept that, it is looking like they want a 12% reduction to our current rate.

Hopefully we can come to an agreement to keep them at least at our current rate without any additional time to our contract, they are the same airplane really. Unfortunately if we can't come to an agreement with management we go before an abritrator and he decides a new pay rate. I don't hold out much hope if that happens. Unfortunately NWa has had this CRJ certified under a new certificate, not simply removed seats like other airlines have. Its the same plane, but since its a different certificate, to get around NWA scope clause, I'm not too optomistic if an abritrator gets it.

 

[dondk]

I am not going to pretend I completely understand EXA's company or union stance. What I do understand though from the union or pilot side is:

No agreement on a 2 year extension
No agreement on a 44 seat rate

now for the other side of the group...
Thier are some willing to take a 2 year extension to guarantee the jets which is rumored to be no less than another 25

The company side...
2 year extension or no more jets
44 seat pay scale or no more jets

Currently we recieved the LAST 50 seat jet, in about 6-8 weeks we will lose about 1/2 of our Saab fleet to XJ then we will lose about 2 Saabs per month until they are gone. Remaining balance of 50 seater jets have been converted to 44 seat jets. The tenative date for the first 44 seat is in about 4 weeks.
Currently they displaced about 42 pilots from MEM and there is a rumor of more displacements to come. Heck, there is also a rumor of more furloughs in the near future if this is not agreed upon. Currently ALL pilots have been recalled.

 

[Saabslime]

Don't give in to the "give us this or no more jets" crap!! Management tried that sorry old tactic with us (Mesaba) when the ARJ's were coming on line. Truth be told, we were going to get those Avro's with or without concessions to the contract. Same holds true for these new jets NWA has coming. They already know who they're going to give them to, but they'll play this whipsaw game to the very end to see who will give up the most to fly them. If both our pilot groups just stand strong, it will eliminate alot of this bull**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** in the future.

 

[dondk]

saabslime

Brother I hear and agree with you 100%... Although when your sitting in class hearing even one guy (in this case more than 1) who are williing to concede it makes you think how many more are there to derail the majority.

I do believe we will get the jet's, the question though is how many and how soon... With all the saab guys coming over to the jet it is starting to get fat, when it get's too fat we all know what happens next....

Some 120 saab guys are in some phase of the jet program now, they are soon to be without an aircraft they can go back to and are having the ONLY aircraft they can go to being held at bay... You can see the "incentive" the company is giving...

 

[Cokie907]

There is no way in hell.....

.....that I will fly the CL440 for a rate of pay any lower than the depressingly paltry rate at which I already fly it.

Management must think we are really stupid, really desperate or BOTH! I will guarantee you that they sit in meetings discussing how far they can push the union and no doubt money changes hands over what will transpire. "Hey guys, I'm betting 100 bucks and a bottle of Dom that they will go for the 2 year extension!" You laugh but think about it.....I will guarantee you they get the biggest kick out of exploiting us to maximum effect!

Expecting a reduced rate of pay for the same aircraft indicates that there is a reduced level of responsibility in carrying out the duties of flying this aircraft. I ask management this: Let's say I'm flying a 50 seater and only 44 people are onboard. Do I now end up being compensated at the "44 seater" rate? I mean come on this is ridiculous!! A follow up question would be: Does a 9 driver on a dash 10 get paid less than a 9 driver flying a dash 50? These are the kinds of tough questions that everyone needs to be asking the management thugs. They claim that a reduced rate of pay is justified because of reduced revenue potential yet they KNOW DARN WELL that crew costs are nothing but a mere pittance of overall aircraft operating cost! Even a 135 freighter in a 310R knows that his 10 dollars an hour is nothing compared to 60 bucks an hour for fuel and 80 an hour for maintenance. Goodness gracious!

In closing let me repeat myself. I WILL NOT FLY THE CL440 FOR A REDUCED RATE OF PAY HERE. If a reduced rate of pay is agreed on and I am assigned to fly it, I will refuse the trip and/or come up with whatever excuse I can muster to not fly it. In the meantime, I will work to exit stage left from this sorry excuse for an aviation entity and perhaps the industry all together. You can never go wrong standing on principle and when all is said and done at least you have your self-respect at the end of the day.