Air Tran Bid: Is it closed? Results?

[Lear70]

Actually, this is somewhat of a surprise and shock to pilots on the Southwest side as well. We too, were expecting the 737s to come over first; in fact I'm almost sure that at one point, I read that the first 717 wasn't transistioning until sometime in 2013. Now it's almost backwards. Everyone over here was anticipating that, because it's the 737 transitions that help SWA guys: Airtran 737 guys coming over with planes trigger upgrades and upward movement for SWA guys. Plus, Airtran-to-737 guys would get under our pay scale sooner. I suppose that's as close to a win-win as possible under our agreement. Not a putdown, but it seems that the transitioning of the 717s first doesn't help the paychecks of either pilot group.

Well, to be clear, the 717's are not coming over to Southwest in 2012. However, with them pulling more 737 PLANES out of AirTran in 2012 and sending them to Southwest than they are pulling PILOTS and sending them to Southwest, SWA pilots will still get upwards of 20 737's (with 2 in progress) by the end of December, 2012, and only 168 AirTran F/O's will transition.

Pulling fewer pilots than planes on a pure staffing ratio basis frees up AirTran pilots to transition to the 717. The plan is to have almost all (if not ALL) of the 717 training events done in 2012. Then, starting in 2013, with the pilots already in position in their final crew positions, the 717's will start coming over.

At that point, it appears that the 737's will stop coming to Southwest, at least at the same pace they were in 2012, and that the international flying will continue to grow at AirTran with those remaining pilots and planes, while the 717's are sent over to Southwest.

In addition to the rumored problems with the new reservation system that Lear reported (slowing 737 transistion to SWA for int'l travel), I wonder if saving money in salary isn't at least partially responsible. Southwest 717s bringing in SWA revenue (while paying Airtran salaries) would seem to help the company's bottom line. Obviously some 737s are coming over in 2012, but not at the speed and ratio that we all thought. Looks like GK is trying to save a buck or two here as well.

Bubba

You said it. I didn't.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Well, to be clear, the 717's are not coming over to Southwest in 2012. However, with them pulling more 737 PLANES out of AirTran in 2012 and sending them to Southwest than they are pulling PILOTS and sending them to Southwest, SWA pilots will still get upwards of 20 737's (with 2 in progress) by the end of December, 2012, and only 168 AirTran F/O's will transition.

Pulling fewer pilots than planes on a pure staffing ratio basis frees up AirTran pilots to transition to the 717. The plan is to have almost all (if not ALL) of the 717 training events done in 2012. Then, starting in 2013, with the pilots already in position in their final crew positions, the 717's will start coming over.

At that point, it appears that the 737's will stop coming to Southwest, at least at the same pace they were in 2012, and that the international flying will continue to grow at AirTran with those remaining pilots and planes, while the 717's are sent over to Southwest.

Well, there you go.

That's what I get for trying to understand the memo. It makes sense that you have to train pilots for the different positions that they'll have during and after the transistion. However, reading the training plan makes it less clear. In the memo's 'flow chart,' the red blocks (717) have the label, "Airtran to Southwest 717 Conversion Training" (emphasis added) with all the stuff happening on the chart starting in Feb 2012. That certainly gives the impression that "Airtran to Southwest 717 Conversion" includes Airtran aircraft converting to Southwest.

Also, in the Q & A section, one of the answers included, "...because the 717 conversion will be complete prior to the last 737 conversion...," clearly referring to aircraft, which further leads the amateur line pilot sleuth to believe that 717s are coming sooner than anticipated. I guess you union guys get all the good memos. Back to lurking in the dark for me...

Bubba

 

[Lear70]

The 717's WILL, in all likelihood, be done prior to the last 737, as far as aircraft are concerned. However, you're still getting 20 737's next year, then in Jan 2013 the 717's will start being moved to Southwest with the pilots, while the rest of the 737's that are still at AirTran at the beginning of 2013 will stay there and keep flying at AirTran, for at least the bulk of 2013 before they start moving over.

All subject to change, of course, 2013 and 2014 are still pretty dynamic from what we're being told, nothing is set in stone yet.

 

[Skyboy722]

The 717's WILL, in all likelihood, be done prior to the last 737, as far as aircraft are concerned. However, you're still getting 20 737's next year, then in Jan 2013 the 717's will start being moved to Southwest with the pilots, while the rest of the 737's that are still at AirTran at the beginning of 2013 will stay there and keep flying at AirTran, for at least the bulk of 2013 before they start moving over.

All subject to change, of course, 2013 and 2014 are still pretty dynamic from what we're being told, nothing is set in stone yet.

I'm really glad you guys understand this stuff. I'm still cleaning up the mess from when my head exploded.

 

[Hose A. Jiminez]

Nice essay. Your plan was sound based upon what you were told.

The 717 pilots will transfer to the B Scale Southwest contract before the vast majority in 2013. They will have the same health starting in 12 days and be under the same SWAPA contract (B Scale) well before you. You're not even close in 2012 and 2013 has a big "?" next to it.

Look at your seniority and then look at the transition schedule. You'll be flying an AirTran 737 while the 717 guys transfer to the SWAPA B Scale. SWA 737 went junior for a reason.

I'd offer you some lubricant, but it seems you've bought your own. Glove up.

Seriously guys, lets move on. Dicko, you know damn well that you were offered pay parity, but your reps turned it down. I feel badly that they so grossly misrepresented you, but blame them not the guys here.

 

[ATLplt]

Secondly, that will trigger a reduction in flying (and therefore, pay), on the AirTran side sooner than was expected. Most people will be close to guarantee by the end of 2012. (I'm thankful we were able to get an increase in guarantee negotiated into the agreement).

The increased guarantee is a joke compared to what we'll lose from where we are now. This deal just keeps getting better. I'll be lucky to make what I made this year in 2012. Merry Christmas to all of us. Here's a lump of coal and a kick in the nuts.

 

[scoreboardII]

Dear Mr Vader,

It's a B Scale, and it's a SWAPA B Scale. It's in the SWAPA contract and it's a lower payrate that only affects (former AirTran) SWAPA 717 pilots. I'll grow up and you can be man enough to 'call a spade a spade'.

You should be concerned that there is a B Scale at your airline. You've been around long enough to know when the camels nose is under the tent.

Read post #86, thats why it's not B scale.

 

[Crash Pad]

I just read post 86. Lets just say that they put a new hire on the 717 before 2015. How about this... what is it when a guy with two years at a company is paid more than say a five year guy at the same company? It's a B-scale.

Enjoy your boosted B-scale profit sharing check. Chuckle at the list. Call us trash when we taxi by. Please don't ever call us equals... it's an insult to everyone involved.

 

[Lear70]

The increased guarantee is a joke compared to what we'll lose from where we are now. This deal just keeps getting better. I'll be lucky to make what I made this year in 2012. Merry Christmas to all of us. Here's a lump of coal and a kick in the nuts.

You've never heard any of us, myself included, call this "a good deal". What you HAVE heard us say is "this was the ONLY deal".

We got as much as we could get (which translates to as much as they were willing to give) with zero leverage and next to zero negotiating power once the MEC told Southwest "We will put whatever comes back out for vote."

So I'm glad we were able to negotiate an increase in guarantee. I brought it up and harped on it once I saw the projected LVI's, Jack and Frank ran with it, and we got it. It's not perfect, but it's better than nothing. I truly wish we could have done more...

 

[Whataburger]

Newsflash

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

it's
done.

for fkuc sake
it's
done!​